Can we take action against Bard Macro Player yet?

[VelKallor]

Olivia:

Theres the other side of the coin, here my friend.

People like me who have no musical gifts whatsoever, and may use a program like that to give my avatar in a fantasy game an ability I will never know in my entire life. One I have dreamt of having almost.forever.

There are people, such as myself, who actually practice playing these songs, and we get immediately overshadowed by people who just press play on a program.

Overshadowed how?

Which is more important...the music and the one who plays it..or the way it is played?

Does it really matter that much?

When I sit down to a concert, it doesnt matter to me whether they are using an auto player or not, the music is what I hear and enjoy. It takes nothing away from you...and gives an immense joy to others who will never know the pleasure of that in reality.

I have a mind that can read and understand medical terminology like a second language, I can speak at least three languages well, I have a small gift inherited from my parents in poetry and prose..but my greatest wish, my fondest dream, was to be on stage with a musical instrument and let the music speak for my heart and soul. You could put the best midi keyboard in front of me and Id never know how to make that music.

That, I cannot and will never know.

If, by some small means, others can attain, that small dream inside a video game, then I see no harm in it.

[Olivia0x25]

Olivia:

Theres the other side of the coin, here my friend.

People like me who have no musical gifts whatsoever, and may use a program like that to give my avatar in a fantasy game an ability I will never know in my entire life. One I have dreamt of having almost.forever.



Overshadowed how?

Which is more important...the music and the one who plays it..or the way it is played?

Does it really matter that much?

When I sit down to a concert, it doesnt matter to me whether they are using an auto player or not, the music is what I hear and enjoy. It takes nothing away from you...and gives an immense joy to others who will never know the pleasure of that in reality.

I have a mind that can read and understand medical terminology like a second language, I can speak at least three languages well, I have a small gift inherited from my parents in poetry and prose..but my greatest wish, my fondest dream, was to be on stage with a musical instrument and let the music speak for my heart and soul. You could put the best midi keyboard in front of me and Id never know how to make that music.

That, I cannot and will never know.

If, by some small means, others can attain, that small dream inside a video game, then I see no harm in it.

It doesn't matter who plays it, but it should matter as if you are actually playing it. Mainly for my main complaint "PRETENDING you are playing it, but aren't". There are people who like to gloat and pretend they are this wild performer, but are letting illegal tools play the song for them. Like the music or not, that IS an unfair advantage for people who don't.

And again, I get it, some might not be musically talented, and if you just want to play songs for yourself/friends, then whatever fine, but I draw the line going into public spaces and pretending you are so great, and even possibly receiving tips for letting software play a song for you. At that point, you are not the performer, but a MP3 player at that point. Would you go to a concert in real life and be okay with a singer not really singing a song? Or if an orchestra wasn't really playing their instruments but letting some software play it for them while pretending they are? Probably not. I know it's a bit different via FFXIV, but that, for me, means a lot.

You cannot possibly get better at learning to play music, if you do not even attempt to try to learn any bit of it. There is much more pride and feeling if a person has worked very hard for their goals and to bring that musical joy to others, than to just sit there and press play and walk away.


I would say that is way more important, and the difference between a performer, and a mp3 player.



That's what I mean by overshadowing. Imagine spending hours upon hours everyday trying to learn a song, just for someone to walk up to you, and have software do it for them, bow in front of everyone, making you feel underappreciated and worthless compared to them all because they have a midi that can do it all, while you are stumbling each step of the way to try to get it down right.

[VelKallor]

It doesn't matter who plays it, but it should matter as if you are actually playing it. Mainly for my main complaint "PRETENDING you are playing it, but aren't". There are people who like to gloat and pretend they are this wild performer, but are letting illegal tools play the song for them. Like the music or not, that IS an unfair advantage for people who don't.

If you have ever used a synthesiser, a Korg, a Yamaha, any of a hundred Casio keyboards, Moogs, Mellotrons, you would know they are programmable and capable of managing and playing a melodic line or counterpoint or descant whilst the player concentrates on another part of the entire piece of music.

How do i know?

I was selling them back when Moogs and early model Casio keyboards first emerged, more than forty years ago.

Jean Michel Jarre, Rick Wakeman for two used these programmable systems all the time. Again, I know, i saw them both in concert, I remember when Wakeman bounced lasers off the steel and glass skyscrapers in Los Angeles, when he performed White Rock for the Olympics.

To this day, those visions remain with me, music and technology hand on hand.

And again, I get it, some might not be musically talented, and if you just want to play songs for yourself/friends, then whatever fine, but I draw the line going into public spaces and pretending you are so great, and even possibly receiving tips for letting software play a song for you.

"It matters not that a song is sung, a piece of music is played, the greater tragedy lies in the loss of that music, that moment of joy, music exists in the heart and soul of the listener and the one who brings that music. From bard to bard, so the dreams woven into melody do not vanish with the passage of time." - a rock guitarist from my younger days.

At that point, you are not the performer, but a MP3 player at that point. Would you go to a concert in real life and be okay with a singer not really singing a song? Or if an orchestra wasn't really playing their instruments but letting some software play it for them while pretending they are? Probably not. I know it's a bit different via FFXIV, but that, for me, means a lot.

My good and gentle friend, one does not listen to wonderful music and then pick apart how it is played. What matters is regardless of how, or where, or by who, that moment of beauty is remembered, and treasured.

"Do not ignore passion or beauty when it is offered...especially when it calls you by name" - Marcus, Babylon 5.

[LianaThorne]

It doesn't matter who plays it, but it should matter as if you are actually playing it. Mainly for my main complaint "PRETENDING you are playing it, but aren't". There are people who like to gloat and pretend they are this wild performer, but are letting illegal tools play the song for them. Like the music or not, that IS an unfair advantage for people who don't.

And again, I get it, some might not be musically talented, and if you just want to play songs for yourself/friends, then whatever fine, but I draw the line going into public spaces and pretending you are so great, and even possibly receiving tips for letting software play a song for you. At that point, you are not the performer, but a MP3 player at that point. Would you go to a concert in real life and be okay with a singer not really singing a song? Or if an orchestra wasn't really playing their instruments but letting some software play it for them while pretending they are? Probably not. I know it's a bit different via FFXIV, but that, for me, means a lot.

You cannot possibly get better at learning to play music, if you do not even attempt to try to learn any bit of it. There is much more pride and feeling if a person has worked very hard for their goals and to bring that musical joy to others, than to just sit there and press play and walk away.


I would say that is way more important, and the difference between a performer, and a mp3 player.



That's what I mean by overshadowing. Imagine spending hours upon hours everyday trying to learn a song, just for someone to walk up to you, and have software do it for them, bow in front of everyone, making you feel underappreciated and worthless compared to them all because they have a midi that can do it all, while you are stumbling each step of the way to try to get it down right.

I'm not finished yet either now that I've seen this post. You are valid that people who are using BMP shouldn't be taking credit as if they're playing the music themselves manually, but the rest of everything you're saying is dripping with envy and jealousy and therefore makes your point of making this post kind of irrelevant. You had a good point but executed it poorly.

1. "And again, I get it, some might not be musically talented, and if you just want to play songs for yourself/friends, then whatever fine, but I draw the line going into public spaces and pretending you are so great, and even possibly receiving tips for letting software play a song for you." - Who died and made you King/Queen of the Bards? So what if someone wants to go out in public and play for people? How does this at all affect your life? It shouldn't. If I want to go out and play for strangers I will, the same as you can.

2. "At that point, you are not the performer, but a MP3 player at that point. Would you go to a concert in real life and be okay with a singer not really singing a song? - Way to slap every single person who DJs for a living in the face, they are just as much of a musician as you are. Also, singers lip-sync CONSTANTLY in real life and we still go to their concerts.

3. "You cannot possibly get better at learning to play music, if you do not even attempt to try to learn any bit of it. There is much more pride and feeling if a person has worked very hard for their goals and to bring that musical joy to others, than to just sit there and press play and walk away." - This is entirely your opinion which you're allowed to have. However, don't expect others to feel the same or mimic your opinion.

4. "That's what I mean by overshadowing. Imagine spending hours upon hours everyday trying to learn a song, just for someone to walk up to you, and have software do it for them, bow in front of everyone, making you feel underappreciated and worthless compared to them all because they have a midi that can do it all, while you are stumbling each step of the way to try to get it down right." - This sucks but just shows that you're barding for the wrong reasons and not for the love of music. You're putting too much into how many people give you headpats rather than just playing music for the so called love that you have for it and the pride you feel from learning.

[Fawkes]

At that point, you are not the performer, but a MP3 player at that point. Would you go to a concert in real life and be okay with a singer not really singing a song? Or if an orchestra wasn't really playing their instruments but letting some software play it for them while pretending they are? Probably not. I know it's a bit different via FFXIV, but that, for me, means a lot.

That's basically what DJing is, and yes tons of people go to watch a guy in a helmet press play on an mp3.

[Rhiney]

This is truly a mindset of a sad soul.
A little background about myself: I to play manually (USB piano), though i cannot read music, i learn by ear. I do take great pride in being able to play manually. I to spend alot of hours in my little home, learning the songs and practicing. I to have had my fair share of "bots", though most of them are great! Only a couple of bad eggs that ive had to deal with, but otherwise, i see no threat in them. Not once do i get jealous or pissed when they fire up a MIDI file that I have heard many times from other bards. No, thats very foolish. If its a good song, I will sit and listen, even formulate a new version of the song in my head to try out later. I grab inspiration from them.
I get where your coming from with how infuriating it is that they can play Meglovania in tempo and perfectly with a press of the button. I am friends with alot of musicians in this game, some are very well known! Fun fact? They edit, or write their own MIDI's and use the program to play it at the press of a button, and its absolutely beautiful! They too sit for hours to create that! When I see them play, its not for money, or headpats, its because they love music and they want to spread the music to others, because music invokes many feelings to people, it speaks on a universal level.
Bots shouldnt bother you. Just let them play. It would be a very boring Eorzea if only musically gifted people could only bard. There would be no Octets, no duets, and no fun and ridiculous insanely fast songs to go nuts over in Limsa. Work on yourself, make a brand for yourself. Specialize your style in a way that stands out. Have fun with it. Recognition, respect, and connections start happening after that.
It should not matter to you if someone is actually playing or using a bot. Music is music. Some people will know if you are playing manually, some people wont. But at the end of the day, they took a few minutes out of their day to listen to you because they like the music. Show up and support other musicians at events, wether they bot or not. Add your own spin or flair to your songs to "stand out" if your worried about a bot playing it better than you. Venue owners and others will see your worth and possibly hire you, and let their patrons know that they will have a hand playing bard at their venue, ect.
Its harmless fun because some people in the game may not have any musical talent, maybe they want their avatar to be a wandering minstrel? Heck, I have a friend that uses the bot because he has no right hand. Not once has he bragged about "oh look at me. look what i can play, give me money and praise!".
Now I have had a couple bards in the past stand right next to me while im playing and decide to play over me with a MIDI file version of the song im playing. The only recognition they got was a slap to the face by listeners. Some can be a bit obnoxious and all you have to do is just walk away, problem solved.

[MirielleLavandre]

Olivia:

People like me who have no musical gifts whatsoever, and may use a program like that to give my avatar in a fantasy game an ability I will never know in my entire life. One I have dreamt of having almost.forever.

but my greatest wish, my fondest dream, was to be on stage with a musical instrument and let the music speak for my heart and soul. You could put the best midi keyboard in front of me and Id never know how to make that music.

That, I cannot and will never know.

If, by some small means, others can attain, that small dream inside a video game, then I see no harm in it.

I'm classically trained in piano and have practiced thousands of hours, yet Vel's post is, to my mind, more genuinely authentic and a testament about what true love of music is than the OP's idea of it.

Music exists to transcend words and languages, since it is understood and loved by humanity as a whole. I can write a piece in a minor chord, using diminished thirds and all just to make it uber sad, and someone/anyone will understand the feeling I'm trying to convey, no matter where in the world they are and what language they speak. Just because Olga Scheps can play Ballade 1 better than I ever could doesn't mean I don't want people exposed to Chopin or to hear his music. In fact, I'd welcome someone who could play this music better than I could to play it for more and more people so that they can, perhaps, grow to love it as much as I do. This wouldn't diminish me or my own talent in the least, but rather uplift the actual music itself.

Unless you compose (as I sometimes do), we are all (musicians and non-musicians alike) just copying the work of another, although perhaps with our own lil interpretations at times. Let us just all love music in whatever form and from whatever source it comes from for what it is - a way to communicate the feelings humanity shares without words ^^

[Izar_Chillen]

Music exists to transcend words and languages, since it is understood and loved by humanity as a whole.

As Stephen Spielberg has often said, his major hit films were successful because of their scores.


I have favourite films and often re-watch them because the music accompanying the film makes it very special for me. Films such as Interstella , Inception , Shawshank Redemption and Jaws with many more I could list off.

Heck I even like box office/film critics "flops" because I enjoy the score eg: Oblivion starring Tom Cruise



There has been some wonderful shorts Ive loved as they were featured in a youtube channel or a tv show such as Netflix's AFterlife by Ricky Gervais

Dave Thomas Junior - Silence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bmz...ist=LL&index=9


or a lovelly piece that was used in aViva La Dirt League - Epic NPC man video

Uninvited · Alfie-Jay Winters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7mk99no24I

Music is the language of the human soul without borders.

[VelKallor]

I'm classically trained in piano and have practiced thousands of hours, yet Vel's post is, to my mind, more genuinely authentic and a testament about what true love of music is than the OP's idea of it.

Thank you, probably the kindest thing anyone has ever said to me.