This game has serious free-rider problems and it's getting worse. A suggestion.

[Wavaryen]

Ya, I think in a pug group it is ok if you want to play your best, but don't expect others to feel the same way. The game content is balanced around the players who just relax in these dungeons, and if that makes the game more boring for you, well I think most of the community willing to pay that price because many people love things how they are.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

Ahh this thread is still going strong. People still salty over players not performing to their standards. Glad Yoshi P has the mindset of "you will carry and you will like it" carry on whining.. you will not get your way! Very glad the direction this MMO has chosen to take. Been loving the game even more lately with so many sprouts to take through content and see their reactions, adorable and wholesome.

[van_arn]

I don't really see the problem, if it's exceptionally bad just kick.

[TaleraRistain]

Honestly, I'm just so tired of this game's community defending UTTER ineptitude. I was just in a group that managed to somehow wipe on Behemoth in Labyrinth of the Ancients. I've never seen a raid come even close to doing that - typically it's an encounter that takes all of 35-40 seconds to clear. And yet people kept dropping the meteors in the very back of the raid - even when members were pleading with them not to.

When I just in general said 'wow, that's the first time a group has ever wiped on that in history,' suddenly it's "OH, YOU'RE TOXIC AF! IMAGINE BEING SO UPSET! - KICK THIS TROLL."

Frankly, if you can't handle the most faceroll encounter in the game, you deserve a callout. I wasn't naming anyone - I wasn't identifying the people who obviously wiped us. I wasn't screaming obscenities. I wasn't even mad. But you cannot criticize anyone in FFXIV's content without people reaching for their pitchforks. It's like an active battle against improvement - a fight to sustain below-average play. I'm not asking anyone to parse or some nonsense - it's a PUGed raid that's as old as the game itself. But to lose your minds in the defense of people who probably should have, you know, read a strat or just paid the most meager level of attention conceivable is just shameful. Just because this game is casual doesn't mean that a celebratory or protective tone needs to be taken regarding the pinnacle of incompetence.

And before someone says "oh, they were totally right - you need to cut people some slack" or "they were probably just sprouts" - you know what I don't do? Go into a raid the first time without any prior knowledge of even a single fight/mechanic and then expect people to carry my rear end to the finish. I may fail mechanics as I learn, but I at least knew what to expect. The information about mechanics - in the form of videos, detailed write-ups, or just simple one-sentence explanations - is out there. It's been out there for years. Educate yourselves - stop being a freaking leech.

Good gravy, you are seriously here losing it because there was a wipe on LotA BEHEMOTH? You do realize these were optional raids in the past and there was a recent change to make them MSQ required, right? I can attest from personal alt experience that you can't finish post-ARR and get to HW without them if you haven't passed that point. So it's not like they're populated with level 80s overgearing the place. There are tons of sprouts in those raids right now in Ironworks gear at best. And no, they don't have to ruin their newbie experience by looking at a video or a guide. That is just a selfish and absolutely entitled statement. Sprouts deserve the same chance to experience the content with fresh eyes like vets did on their first runs. What you said was incredibly nasty and snarky and you deserve any flaming you got for it.

[Wilford111]

Maybe we could make everything similar to the FATE reward structure where your rewards are dependant on your performance. The actual performance doesn't have to be a lot... let's say, at least 5% of the total party's damage (adjusted depending on role), just something to make sure nobody's afking the entire time. If you don't meet that, put a cap on how high you can roll on items and decrease exp and gil rewards.

idk maybe that isn't a good idea, but maybe it would help.

[Snorky]

Maybe we could make everything similar to the FATE reward structure where your rewards are dependant on your performance. The actual performance doesn't have to be a lot... let's say, at least 5% of the total party's damage (adjusted depending on role), just something to make sure nobody's afking the entire time. If you don't meet that, put a cap on how high you can roll on items and decrease exp and gil rewards.

idk maybe that isn't a good idea, but maybe it would help.

I think that's a terrible idea. If it has anything to do with the main story quest I say no. Why would you penalize new players? It would just contribute to the problem of players being elite or sub par. Why divide people into little groups because some people want you to play to their standards and not the standards the game allows? On the main story quest you have to progress and are awarded gear or currency to up grade. Start making it harder by this way will just gate people from content.

[Jijifli]

Ya, I think in a pug group it is ok if you want to play your best, but don't expect others to feel the same way. The game content is balanced around the players who just relax in these dungeons, and if that makes the game more boring for you, well I think most of the community willing to pay that price because many people love things how they are.

I don't expect people to do their best. Heck, I don't even expect much at this point. I expect a tank to tank, a healer to at least heal, and a dps to press at least 1 button, at this point. If XxJoeSlayerxX in the corner wants to spam Hakaze on SAM, then you know what, he can.

At least then XxJoeSlayerxX is doing something, unlike some people I've had the pleasure of playing with.

Ahh this thread is still going strong. People still salty over players not performing to their standards. Glad Yoshi P has the mindset of "you will carry and you will like it" carry on whining.. you will not get your way! Very glad the direction this MMO has chosen to take. Been loving the game even more lately with so many sprouts to take through content and see their reactions, adorable and wholesome.

If me being salty that people literally afk content, which makes me have to drag their weight along because of it, is truly a bad statement, then I apologize.

I forgot people spend $15 every month to NOT play their video game. I'm the weird one, I guess.

[Nethereal]

It sounds like you're playing with the intent to push your limits. Assuming that everyone is playing with that goal in mind is a big mistake. Many of us are playing to relax at the end of a long workday, not to push our limits. A comfortable run is a relaxing one. I know that there are guilds who share a common goal of constantly pushing their limits, and that's perfectly fine. More power to them and to you. In duty roulette, though, you need to realize that you're going to be playing with a wide variety of players.

As far as "teaching" and "coddling," I don't think it's the game's place to "teach" players to experiment. I think it's great that the game enables players who want to experiment in their own groups, but I don't want it forced on anyone. When I see your posts, I'm reading, "Everyone needs to be taught to play my way, and I'm frustrated that the game isn't forcing everyone to do so." It's kind of ironic for you to critically use the phrase, "coddled like children," when describing a game that's rated T for teen. You're playing a kid's game. I don't know what more you're expecting out of it.

Outside of out right intentional disrespect I respect most forms of alternative play, what frustrates me is contrarians who say the only valid way to play is to be inside your comfort zone always, never trying to get better.
Especially when in a hypothetical situation if it were to be a solo game they would not be able to complete content. But I digress.

It's fairly disingenuous to use the phrase "You're playing a kid's game." when there are games in the world rated E - For everyone, despite having gambling in them.
As a person you should base your expectations on the reality of the situation around you.
Most players are at least 16 years or older, they're only 2 years off from being legally considered adults, I should at least be able to expect basic communication.

[Wilford111]

I think that's a terrible idea. If it has anything to do with the main story quest I say no. Why would you penalize new players? It would just contribute to the problem of players being elite or sub par. Why divide people into little groups because some people want you to play to their standards and not the standards the game allows? On the main story quest you have to progress and are awarded gear or currency to up grade. Start making it harder by this way will just gate people from content.

I didn't mean to contribute damage that's acceptable to high-end players. Just something the game can keep track of to see if players are just sitting afk waiting for everyone else to complete the content for them.

And yes, I'm sure that no matter how low you set the bar for incoming damage, there will still be a problem with the idea I suggested. I just think there should be something in place other than a vote kick feature that isn't available 99% of the time.

[TaleraRistain]

Outside of out right intentional disrespect I respect most forms of alternative play, what frustrates me is contrarians who say the only valid way to play is to be inside your comfort zone always, never trying to get better.

What about people who think they get to be the arbiter for perfect strangers on when they are ready/willing to play outside their comfort zone? If you like to test your limits, that's fine. You don't get to decide for anyone else.