After nearly a decade, im giving this game another chance.

[DwightParkman]

I suspect a lot of people would love more skill customization, but just as many would not. corporations, game developers, are in a business. niche games do not get a huge population base, and there are more people out there who just want to log in and play than figure out numbers. thats how it is, if thats toxic, well, blame humanity....

im just gonna repeat myself for i think what.... the 3rd or 4th time since i started this? not that the amount matters but ill say it one more time.

if you dont like johnny players, or custom builds, dont play with them or dont use custom builds and follow your spike player meta build. see how your take it or leave it logic kinda makes no difference to mine? the difference to yours and mine is that my take it or leave it argument would allow for more players to the game, an entry for johnny players, where your idea only limits it to spike players. and the kicker here is that spike players still can have their world too, they just gotta accept that there exists johnny players among them.

[Nothv13]

anyways this thread was simply made because i wanted to give FF14 players an idea of what a johnny player's take is on the game, is a great game. but they really should consider the prospect of adding content appealing to different camps of players, and not just the "spike" player camp. it would bring them alot more users to the game, and should also consider further that alot of wow players are moving to ff14, which will also be confused about no inclusion of a staple mmo concept. strike while the iron is hot or so to speak.

if you dont like the idea of class builds, remember that you can always stick to the meta build. dont want to play with tinker build johnny players? then dont play with them. in the end you would realize its a silly thing to have hang-ups on as its a game made to be fun, and not a second job

The problem is, the game is not designed for such. From the ground up. It is not designed for tinkering. From class quests to end game raiding. It is built around each class doing precisely what it is designed to do and it is up to the player to maximize that. WoW for example, their raids and high end content are not near as precise with their mechanics and are much more gear based compared to FFXIV.

[DPZ2]

im just gonna repeat myself for i think what.... the 3rd or 4th time since i started this? not that the amount matters but ill say it one more time.

if you dont like johnny players, or custom builds, dont play with them or dont use custom builds and follow your spike player meta build. see how your take it or leave it logic kinda makes no difference to mine? the difference to yours and mine is that my take it or leave it argument would allow for more players to the game, an entry for johnny players, where your idea only limits it to spike players. and the kicker here is that spike players still can have their world too, they just gotta accept that there exists johnny players among them.

And, if you choose to use descriptions created specifically for the Magic the Gathering Trading card game 8 years ago to provide guidance to developers of the Card Game, don't be surprised when people don't know what the heck you are saying, or particularly care.

If you require a high level of custom builds in order to enjoy a video game, this game is not currently going to satisfy that requirement, nor is it likely to do so in the next two years. There are no 'johnny, spike or timmy' players in this game -- that set of psychographic profiles does not apply to a non-trading card game, let alone an MMO.

You may choose it, but it doesn't describe the players of this game. Unless, of course, you are choosing to use 'spike' as a derogatory word???

[DPZ2]

i mean.... you're quite good at paraphrasing ill give ya that, but based off all the strict immovable statements im seeing from this thread alone, these are statements only a spike player would say. "illusions of customization" "the only thing that matters is the most damage" and my personal favorite "if you arent meta, ill kick you"

sorry but how is any of that okay to anyone? i think people might not realise it, but the ff14 core philosophy is pretty toxic on its on principles from just those 3 quotes alone

Since I wrote none of the lines you just put in quotes, what's your point?

Paraphrasing what? Summarizing the high points of Mark Rosewater's article in a Magic the Gathering blog posting Timmy, Johnny and Spike ??? Providing a quote from that same article?

[Kes13a]

im just gonna repeat myself for i think what.... the 3rd or 4th time since i started this? not that the amount matters but ill say it one more time.

if you dont like johnny players, or custom builds, dont play with them or dont use custom builds and follow your spike player meta build. see how your take it or leave it logic kinda makes no difference to mine? the difference to yours and mine is that my take it or leave it argument would allow for more players to the game, an entry for johnny players, where your idea only limits it to spike players. and the kicker here is that spike players still can have their world too, they just gotta accept that there exists johnny players among them.

okay, I will attempt to repeat it maybe a different way to see if you meet me half way.

the addition of a niche system to allow for the game player to hybridize their stats is not enough of a winner to a game developer to institute it in an mmo on the off chance it appeals. I have no logic going on here, this is how making money works. yes, it would add more players.. possibly, but they do market studies I imagine and they aim to serve a majority of people. plain and simple.

what, in your logic (to use your term) would compel a game developer to spend money and time on a system that may not see much use at all? not only that, but what cost would it entail to work that system into a game of this age?

I have never disagreed with you on the system, I preferred it back in Galaxies before all the changes and specific classes, all I am disagreeing on is the reality of expecting a system in an mmo.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

Streamlining the jobs and their actions was the best thing SE did in my opinion. The ability to "tinker" with your jobs is just a silly ilusion to be honest. Raiders will always choose the spec with the highest dps, same as it always was in WoW. There were skills nobody would use and people in raids etc. would flame you for it.

FFXIV isn't about being better through gear or better specs. It's about learning your rotation and performing well, it's personal skill based and not gear based.

But to be fair, i also don't like some of the changes they made. Tanks for example, it feels like they lost their unique charme. Like War having more lifepoints and higher healing but no build in mitigation.

I actually dislike not having proper building of characters. But i know that is not gonna change, so i hope they keep making more horizontal and open content like Bozja where you get more options to make the class your own instead of running like everyone else. And not having those options didn't dispell any illusion - Meta still there. I rather have the options, not everyone is interested in raiding anyway... Pretty clear that much "balance" of classes and lack of customization allows for really tight control of combat design......... For the 2% of players that participate in it. Too much of anything is bad.

All jobs have turned into a "generate bar" - "spend bar".

The all jobs having the same MP is also weird, the TP can stay away, but please make MP diferent and proportional to all classes again. It looks so weird to have 1k HP but 10k MP.

[Garnix]

Having freedom in character builds just give me PTSD of my days on Ragnarok Online.
Spending hours and hours just looking at skill trees, only to figure out that I'd regret some of my choices a few weeks/months later.
After playing that game for years, every time I see a skill tree I am getting nervous. I am glad XIV is more straightforward on that aspect.
It's not because I like sticking to a meta, it's because I hate having to make choices that can end up being terrible choices on the long run, or choices that I would not personally enjoy that much.
The only skill trees I like are the ones in some single player games where I know I would be able to unlock all the skills at the end. The ones that can eventually impact the way your character progresses, but not the way your character feels like at the end.

Also, games that offer various builds also have smaller class variety. Look at WoW. It's 9.1 and they have 12 classes. At the current pace, by the time XIV reaches 9.0, we would have 25 jobs...
I can't even imagine the mess it would be to have various builds for 25 jobs...
Or they could stop adding new jobs and create various builds for the existing jobs. But...how would that be more interesting?...It's the same end result to me.

Actually, you are basically the type of player for which they created side content that allows to break the rules and the balance of the game (Blue Mage, Eureka logos actions, Bozja lost actions, deep dungeon's pomanders etc)

(That said, I still think there is too much homogenization on some aspects of each role, but that's another topic.)

[Iscah]

"As you will see, Johnny and Spike have a destination in mind when they play. Timmy is in it for the journey."

Surely when arbitrarily assigning names to playstyles, it's a missed opportunity for Johnny to be the one "in it for the journey"...

[Shurrikhan]

I've been feeling the same way you do about the combat, only it took me years to feel that way, mostly because it was Shadowbringers that really put the final straw in the things I enjoyed about the combat and dungeons. And I know it won't get any better since ShB is also the expansion during which this game's population grew the most by far.

"The game grew most during period X. It must have had the best changes!"

"It couldn't have anything to do with our largest competitors sinking?"

"No! Stop with this idiocy! Gutting jobs to be playable optimally within 5 minutes of having purchased a boost is ideal practice!"



I jest, but it really is sad how much conflation can empower even damaging design choices.

[Jkap_Goat]

snipe

This is literary exactly how i feel about XIV and its mundane battle system

Its just a song and dance that really has no planning or strategy when it comes to mobs/ boss battle than pressing buttons in a simple rotation and avoid orange glow on floor.


I have gotten my fix from playing FFXI where bosses/ endgame content require planning and strategy to defeat content

FFXI jobs aren't tied to the holy Trinity system because everything can kinda heal, or kinda tank in some way, and you have to exploits a bosses weakness and plan like ," what support jobs we should bring? Should we get a Puppetmasters Puppet to tank? Or should we use a BeastMaster's pet? Should we bring a red mage to heal as well as support? Ect ect..

Here is an example, i had to heal as a DNC in ambuscade last month( one of the endgame content in FFXI) because the bosses was sucking MP out of the mages and FFXI dancer can heal using TP instead of MP and was able to clear it or i could have stunned the Orcs to stop their MP stealing

stuff like that doesn't happen in xiv and i enjoy thats theres more than one way to do and clear bosses and endgame content.

FFXI battle system is slower but its more impactful as chaining weapons kills together or with other players to do massive amount of damage to the enemies ands its soo satisfying

And FFXI has support jobs, like true support job and you can use different kinds of weapons and not be assign to just one like FFXIV jobs ( FFXI dnc can use hand to hand weapons, daggers, swords, shields.)


FFXI to me feeels like a true Final Fantasy game. Its not perfect like... (FFXI crafting is so boring) but it is more enjoyable and challenging for me than FFXiV













also FFXI summoner is just way awesome!