This game has serious free-rider problems and it's getting worse. A suggestion.

[Ayuhra]

I usually don't even talk about "what do disabled people want" because I don't personally know any. I can put myself in some imaginary perspective of a disabled person built from my understanding of what a disabled person does and wants but it would be faulty.

I'm disabled...I mean kinda. I guess.

I have nerve damage in my hands that is under control but my nerves physically can't handle this game if I play on a keyboard. Too many buttons. Controller is better.

Also have ADHD and dyslexia. I can do the fights and learn them but I'll never be able to do current savage content because I can't reliably hyper focus on the dance for extended periods repeatedly. I'll have one amazing pull where I do flawlessly and the next pull I'm a trash fire.

[LaylaTsarra]

Game is fine. The forum is another bag of chips.

[Roeshel]

I am being honest with myself I would be fine with it. I perosnally do not view being removed as they end of the world why would I want to play with a group of a people that had no interest in plaything with me?

Though once again it is not mood swings I just have certain standards that most would find unreasonable or unfair.

In the end I have been removed from parties I just queue again people take being removed far too personally when often times the action is not done out if malice just turns has the voting majority is either neutral or has no desire to play with person B. So if I am removed I just chalk it up to well guess said group does not want to play along with me.

Though I will bite though how exactly am I wrecking myself? What reason do I have to put others ahead of my own or those around me enjoyment?

To be honest, if I get removed I take it very personally. But I don't really stress over it that much because I know that the people who agreed to the kick will have bad things happening to them soon. At least from what I learned from school, the teachers who wanted to ruin my grades both were hospitalized because they broke one of their legs and so new teachers came I could correct my grades. I did not do anything. Misfortunate random events happen to everybody, just in my opinion they are not really that random.

What reason do I have to put others ahead of my own or those around me enjoyment?

There isn't one for both you and me. It is just that, tagging a friend to ensure the kick will pass is not fair. Let's look it that way, most people adjust to what the majority of players are expecting them to do, it's something like a social norm. A guy like that gets matched with a premade group of two or three and gets silently kicked without any explanation whatsoever. Do you know how many different conclusions one can make from an encounter like that? They might self-blame, get angry, be left in utter confusion, and so on. In the end, the probability of them being ready to meet the random premade group standards the next time they get matched is very low, pretty non-existent. Almost the same as the probability of them meeting each other. But the thing is, all premade groups with higher standards who silently kick another person are just passing the problem to the next group with higher standards to teach that guy what is really expected of them. And once they are taught they can now start sharing the higher standards with others as well.

So to put it simply, not sharing your standards with people causes dysfunction and you are basically isolating yourself. Humans are social beings and need societies to grow their characters. I know that this is not real life but the way I see silently kicks is as opportunities missed. I know it's a game but still.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

So far the best combo I've had going with whatever I end up getting is Beast and defensives. Doesn't make me an impressive party member but it gives healers with profane more openings to go ham.

Even something as ‘useless’ as platebearer will still mean your healers can leave you alone longer before having to babysit you. Nothing’s more fun to my eyes than seeing myself getting more opportunities hurling Glares/Broil/Malefic on top of party’s enmity list consistently… until a tankbuster aimed directly at myself (hopefully not, lmao). It’s the “Yes I choose not to farm essence but I want my rewards so I hope my party will do the rest of the work”-players that are inevitably contributing to the peril. But should we be surprised? That’s what Yoshi-P wants. /shrug

Also yes, there are actually relatively easy ways to farm the essences. Setting aside 10-20m of productive farming with an active party is enough essences to last you probably a week or two depending on your classes preferences and options. Naturally if you are versatile with your classes choices it will lasts you longer because you have more options of essences you can use than not.

[BaconBits]

ITT: Players who have forgotten what it's like to be new to certain content, players who have forgotten what it's like to be new completely, players who are generally pretty fine with the status quo, and the occasional troll.

Bruh there's being new, then there's trying to chain uncomboed chaos thrust to sonic thrust, or spamming nocturnal aspected helios before the shields even have a chance to drop because "it's easier to aoe than single target".

Most people in here aren't asking for some orange parsing Adonis that can singlehandedly solo e12s while taking stunning gposes in the middle of the battle, just basic competency.

[Ronduwil]

The amount of people that clearly pay no attention and/or don’t care at all about fellow players is astonishing and, frankly, depressing.

That's their loss. To me, engaging with the boss is much more fun than floor tanking. I don't care when someone gets a "free ride" from me because I had fun engaging in the fight. I love being one of a handful of players left alive at the end of the boss fight. I feel like I've come through for my fellow players. Most players are trying their hardest, and I pity their ignorance and/or poor reflexes when they go down. I don't resent it.

Then you have the usual clueless players that seemingly got to level cap without ever reading the tooltips of their skills

Ignorance is correctable. I'll be forever grateful to the player who first made me aware of The Balance Discord server.

Is it wrong to think that players performing terribly should be given a penalty and ideally be denied any form of reward for the content they’re running?

I left WoW to get away from this toxic design philosophy. My workday is spent dealing with deadlines, performance reviews, and merit-based pay. I play video games to get away from all that, not to indulge in more of it. The current system in this game is great because the incentives to do well already exist in the form of commendations. My goal in every PUG is to get every commendation possible. It's unattainable, and I often fall far short of it, but I still enjoy striving for it.

Some of your suggestions sound absolutely awful:

1) The interests of the party members are already aligned. No enters an instance hoping for repeated wipes.
2) Why should you get a bonus for going in with better gear? If you already have better gear, you have even less use for the rewards than the lesser geared players. Your proposal only expands the gap between the geared and ungeared.
3) Everyone plays for their own reasons. For us, that reason is to get better. Others have their own reasons. Players current have the freedom to play the way they want. The game shouldn't have to remind and force you to get better. Less experienced players already know they need to get better. The game doesn't need to punch them in the face with that fact at every opportunity.
4) It's only going to increase the toxicity exponentially. If you want an existing example, spend a couple of days on the WoW forums. Their current "everything is an e-sport" design philosophy is part of the reason that this game is currently surging in popularity.

The system you're proposing is pretty much implemented already in WoW. I prefer to play FFXIV because their design team remembers that this is a game and that a game's purpose is to be enjoyed, not to marginalize the less skillful players so that others can feel that all the time that they've invested into a video game is worth more than it really is.

[Rinhi]

ITT: Players who have forgotten what it's like to be new to certain content, players who have forgotten what it's like to be new completely, players who are generally pretty fine with the status quo, and the occasional troll.

no one is talking about those players, though

[Awha]

To be honest, if I get removed I take it very personally. But I don't really stress over it that much because I know that the people who agreed to the kick will have bad things happening to them soon. At least from what I learned from school, the teachers who wanted to ruin my grades both were hospitalized because they broke one of their legs and so new teachers came I could correct my grades. I did not do anything. Misfortunate random events happen to everybody, just in my opinion they are not really that random.



There isn't one for both you and me. It is just that, tagging a friend to ensure the kick will pass is not fair. Let's look it that way, most people adjust to what the majority of players are expecting them to do, it's something like a social norm. A guy like that gets matched with a premade group of two or three and gets silently kicked without any explanation whatsoever. Do you know how many different conclusions one can make from an encounter like that? They might self-blame, get angry, be left in utter confusion, and so on. In the end, the probability of them being ready to meet the random premade group standards the next time they get matched is very low, pretty non-existent. Almost the same as the probability of them meeting each other. But the thing is, all premade groups with higher standards who silently kick another person are just passing the problem to the next group with higher standards to teach that guy what is really expected of them. And once they are taught they can now start sharing the higher standards with others as well.


So to put it simply, not sharing your standards with people causes dysfunction and you are basically isolating yourself. Humans are social beings and need societies to grow their characters. I know that this is not real life but the way I see silently kicks is as opportunities missed. I know it's a game but still.

A Teacher that went out if their way to ruin mine and many other special needs children grades, and made a comment to another teacher that they refused to help a student cause they smelled became the principles of the school and won teacher of the year for that year. I fail to see your point either you believe in that stuff or you don't. Personally I think people grasp onto such things as a means to explain away things that either make them uncomfortable or make themselves feel better around a negative situation or maybe positive if something negative happens to another. In end to be frank you have no idea bad things will happen a part of you may wish for it to happen but the reality is your wish or desire most likely had no impact on why the negative thing happened. Cause I will tell you think once I kick someone they are done their presence noonger exists in my head so at that point can you really say if something bad happens to me it was because I kicked you if I do not even remember your face or even your characters name? That said that mindset seems far darker and anti social then anything I have said or done.

Either way

That being said not trying to be dismissive but the entirety of your second half of post largely boils down well that sounds like a you problem. I personally do not think it is a good use of time to think about what impact my actions will have on other people especially random people. I mean if that is your style fine, but let us be real I do not care if someone views my action of removing them as personal slight against them. That seems more like a personal self esteem issue then something that I should be cognizant of when I am playing with others. I do not expect people to take my personal issues into consideration when they play with me so why would I should I care about others personal issues? I already have my own worries and problems I do not need to add another's to that equation.

I did agree to teach others I am not a good teacher nor do I have any desire to be one. I also do not mind how people play they can play however they want just if it happens to be around me and a friend expect to be kicked if we find it inconvenient sure it might not be fair to the person, but unfortunately the system allows for it so it is free game in my opinion.

In short it appears the premise of why I should care is because my actionsn a negative impact on others and potentially limit my own possibilities and experiences as a human cause I am cutting off the chance encounter before I could see what it blossoms to.

That may be true if I valued such things, I am happy with my small tight group of friends, and personally I am not much of a social person I had the time of my life during covid. I just got to be did not feel any sense of pressure from the outside world, I get to work from wherever I want now only having to come into the office one to four times a month depending. Outside the loss of life and suffering across the board many faced I cannot say I did not enjoy the overall experience on a personal level. I do wish it did not have to come at the expense of world wide suffering but I right as rain.

I use to joke about it but covid did show I would / may be fine living away from civilization if I could sadly I do not have that kind of money and not healthy enough to do so. Childhood cancer is a bitch on the body. In general I felt happier during the lockdowns then ever before even my friends, family, and therapist noticed I was in the best mood they have ever saw me during the pandemic. In end maybe really am just different from others that is okay with me.

[Ronduwil]

Sounds like a good way for FF14 to lose 20% of its subs.

You make a valid point, but you only scratched the surface of it. You only lose 20% initially. It's not like the bottom 20% leaves and suddenly everyone is in the top 80%. Percentiles are based on the current population, so the bottom 20% leaves, and then the players that used to be in the 20-36% range are now the bottom 20%. Then they leave, and this repeats until you're left exclusively with what was originally the top 20%, except that now the good players are the bottom 20% while the god tier players are the top 80%. The proposed system is even more of a game killer than you're suggesting.

[Alaeacus]

ITT: Players who have forgotten what it's like to be new to certain content, players who have forgotten what it's like to be new completely, players who are generally pretty fine with the status quo, and the occasional troll.

The people we are complaining are not new players. Most of us in this thread have, at length, gone out of our way to explain we are not talking about new players. Your response is disingenuous.