Bring back the role skill diversion for alliance raids

[Katie_Kitty]

Tanks aren't losing hate because other than the MT they never establish it in the first place. They aren't all dying to mechanics. lmao. What's happening is the MT dies for whatever reason and the other 2 tanks never activate Tank Stance. Diversion and Lucid dreaming will do absolutely nothing in this situation that wouldn't be better served by tanks simply having (larger) enmity generation on the entirety of their rotation, with tank stance simply being a a decider for MT/OT duty.

Well actually yes it would do a lot for people who would otherwise be in danger of getting squashed. You are seriously taking this whole discussion way too seriously. No, nobody is seriously suggesting that diversion would bring anything of significance to the game. But I, personally, when I am in a roulette and the main tank dies (as they will), I would be in much less danger with those enmity management tools.

But, again, you're taking it TOO SERIOUSLY.

[Aurida]

Diversion and Lucid dreaming will do absolutely nothing in this situation that wouldn't be better served by tanks (...)

Yes hard agree that ideally the other tanks should be the ones to get the aggro when the current tank dies, but also independent of that, I'd like a button that the highest DPS players can press to not die if that doesn't happen for whatever reason. If I'm the highest DPS and all of the tanks die, I want someone with lower DPS to die before I die

[Shurrikhan]

Okay so you completely missed the point here. Tanks aren't losing hate, they're dying because they don't know mechanics and that means anyone who puts in any amount of legit effort to do good damage is going to be the first one squashed once that happens.

No, it's not a thing for high-end raiding. It would be for people like me who actually enjoy doing casual content for fun.

Then Diversion would be useless. It literally does not matter whether its a Normal mode 8-man, Savage mode 8-man, an Extreme, or an Alliance Raid.

If you or any other DPS is getting threat, it's because the remaining tanks didn't secure it. The sole exception to this is the "marks all tanks with bombs" mechanics -- themselves fairly rare -- for which, at best, you're asking for a hit-on-CD button that, so long as your damage is low enough, forces someone else (with higher damage and/or fewer Diversion presses) else to die in your place (the "peasant" in place of you, the "queen", to borrow your words). That... honestly sounds like a worthwhile expense of toolkit space to you?

At best, it's an additional button tax one is obliged to hit if dealing more damage than the other DPS on the off-chance that an emergency occurs in the future you won't be the first to drop if any only if they suck it up and don't hit the button so that they drop before the player otherwise putting out more enmity.

But I, personally, when I am in a roulette and the main tank dies (as they will), I would be in much less danger with those enmity management tools.

It's a zero-sum issue here. The danger you don't take is the danger you're foisting onto someone else so long as they hit the "please let me die last" button less than you do.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Can I have it back so I can AoE during wall-to-wall dungeon trash pulls without needing to stop to let the tank build more aggro.

Hits bloat skill on cooldown despite tanks having a 10x enmity modifier while dealing more than a 10th a DPS's damage.

Tank-AoEs dungeon trash pull twice.
Me-Uses Verthunder one time and generates almost 1/4 aggro on the mobs. Uses Impact and generates half aggro. Uses Contra Sixte and is dangerously close to aggroing them all, if not already. Doomed if Contra Sixte so much as crits or even DHs. I have to stop AoEing after that first Impact or else I'll risk ripping aggro if Contra Sixte crits or dhs and I'd rather not stop dpsing. Just using Contra Sixte alone is sometimes enough to rip aggro if the tank doesn't aoe more than 2 times.

Please give me back Diversion so I can AoE during trash pulls without needing to stop like I could in Stormblood.

[KDSilver]

These suggestions won't fix anything for a simple reason.

If the tank just ignore add, diversion or not, enmity modifier or not, as long as the tank don't hit the adds, you'll be the one with aggro and not him.

People just have to do the very least.

[Rongway]

Can I have it back so I can AoE during wall-to-wall dungeon trash pulls without needing to stop to let the tank build more aggro.



Tank-AoEs dungeon trash pull twice.
Me-Uses Verthunder one time and generates almost 1/4 aggro on the mobs. Uses Impact and generates half aggro. Uses Contra Sixte and is dangerously close to aggroing them all, if not already. Doomed if Contra Sixte so much as crits or even DHs. I have to stop AoEing after that first Impact or else I'll risk ripping aggro if Contra Sixte crits or dhs and I'd rather not stop dpsing. Just using Contra Sixte alone is sometimes enough to rip aggro if the tank doesn't aoe more than 2 times.

Please give me back Diversion so I can AoE during trash pulls without needing to stop like I could in Stormblood.

You have to do 10x as much damage as the tank to pull aggro. Even if the tank did nothing but spam just the first step of their AoE, you would not come even close to dealing 5x as much damage as them.

If you are pulling aggro on groups, it means the tank isn't using AoE, and Diversion wouldn't stop you from pulling aggro. You're not pulling aggro because you are doing too much damage; you are pulling aggro because the tank is single targeting.

We don't need Diversion back. We need tanks to use AoE when there's more than one target and we need off tanks to turn tank stance on after their openers so they can maintain #2 enmity.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Snip

I said during mass pulls. Should I have said the point where tanks are currently pulling one trash pack to the next instead? If tanks only AoE them once then go to the next pack it is not enough to keep aggro. Two times is sometimes not even enough. Never had this problem in Stormblood when Diversion was a thing and I could just AoE endlessly during pulls after the tank AoE'd trash packs once.

[Cabalabob]

Despite enmity control being widely useless now since Shadowbringers, I do believe they still have a place and think it’s a shame that they got rid of them. Lucid dreaming should not have had the enmity dump effect taken off and skills like diversion and tanks ultimatum should not have been removed and to a lesser degree ninja’s skills like shadewalker and smokescreen.

There are times when you don’t have an actual tank like running undersized duties and in those scenarios you have no control over where the enemy is going to look or who it’s going to target and it will likely end up on your healer which is not ideal. Then there are also situations where your tank dies and you have no control over where the mobs are going to go next and if it’s late into a pull on multiple enemies it’s going to take the tank a long time to catch up since they no longer have an AoE provoke and the party has no enmity dumps.

[Shurrikhan]

I said during mass pulls. Should I have said the point where tanks are currently pulling one trash pack to the next instead? If tanks only AoE them once then go to the next pack it is not enough to keep aggro. Two times is sometimes not even enough. Never had this problem in Stormblood when Diversion was a thing and I could just AoE endlessly during pulls after the tank AoE'd trash packs once.

You did over 1300 (~3300 with 2 AoEs) effective potency to each target in the time it took your tank to reach the next pack?

...Tell them to use Sprint?

[Sqwall]

Me thinks you just need a better less lazy tank.

I have to shake my head at this ever since 4.0 wrapped up.

Good riddance to stance dancing and agro management.