Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

[cheolsu]

For all the hate levied against FF13 in much of the playerbase, it sure is interesting how people are just eating current dungeon designs up.

and the worst of it all is? you don't even need the /comfort emote anymore to get rid of the gremlin debuff. you just esuna it away (yes, i have /comfort on my bars, for the three dungeons that use it)

it's also worth noting that's what the gremlin at the beginning of the shadowbringers trailer is doing, using Bad Mouth to debuff Derplander with the Misery debuff. this is no obscure move!

[lezard21]

Even to this day, post ARR dungeons are harder than current "Expert" dungeons. Like a new group will still wipe to Tam-Tara Hard's first boss mechanic of kiting the adds into the boss' AoE, or Haukke Manor Hard's final boss mechanic of DPSing down the adds before the boss eats them, or Halatali Hard's first boss Tail Screw mechanic, or Pharos Sirius in general.

Meanwhile current "Expert" dungeons you can have scenarios where the Tank or the Healer DCs during a boss fight and you can very easily survive or stall till they reconnect, or even in some cases finish the fight without them.

I'd be totally fine with Dungeons' quality being standarized if it meant that more time went to developing endgame content like Savage and Ultimates, but instead more time ended up being devoted to fanservice like Nier or bunny boys.

[Shurrikhan]

...dungeons are like ff13? I had no idea every single fight took 30 minutes no matter how insignificant the mob was.

Unless you played terribly, even with mere speedrun gear, the longest fight prior to post-endgame content was ~13 minutes.

An average mob pack, even when minimally geared? Under 2 minutes.

:: On your other points, though, agreed. Just wasn't sure what you were going for with that hyperbole.

[Gobio]

If difficult increase means damage / hp, more mechanics based on established raid language (like face away, stack, dont stand infront of boss, hide behind stuff when boss cast long spell etc...), then it is fine.

But if it is a specific mechanics, then there are simply too many dungeons out there to remember. Pretty much reduce to either you remember this dungeon mechanics,or your team die once so you can all remember it... Kind of annoying. "ahh I remember now for this random stormblood dungeon (out of hundreds? that we can zone into), third boss, we need kill mob z, y, z in that order when he cast Y, do this so we don't wipe". Is this fun? (you can say yes, just that it could be annoying...)

[lezard21]

If difficult increase means damage / hp, more mechanics based on established raid language (like face away, stack, dont stand infront of boss, hide behind stuff when boss cast long spell etc...), then it is fine.

But if it is a specific mechanics, then there are simply too many dungeons out there to remember. Pretty much reduce to either you remember this dungeon mechanics,or your team die once so you can all remember it... Kind of annoying. "ahh I remember now for this random stormblood dungeon (out of hundreds? that we can zone into), third boss, we need kill mob z, y, z in that order when he cast Y, do this so we don't wipe". Is this fun? (you can say yes, just that it could be annoying...)

Definition of fun varies from person to person. To you unique mechanics is annoying because you don't like wiping and learning.

To you big Hp and damage is fun. To me big Hp is artificial difficulty and annoying. It is the core problem with Delubrum Reginae (specially if half the raid is not using essences which is what happens if you queue for it instead of PF) since the bosses are all super easy and don't have any challenging mechanic, just an insane amount of Hp that as a consequence have you seeing each of the easy mechanics multiple times throughout the fight. I don't see how seeing the same mechanic a 2nd time in the fight could be harder than the first time, just annoying, thus artificial difficulty. Big damage has the same issue if it's not tied to a mechanic. If the boss has a mechanic that kills you or nearly kills you for doing it wrong then it's fine, but if the boss is just hitting hard or spamming raidwides then it's artificial difficulty, since it's just a matter of wether your healer can outheal the raidwides.

[Wilford111]

Aurum is the best ARR has and I know many who thinks the same. Its more like a meme that it's a bad one

Definitely not a meme. I remember a few years ago when I was new and in my first FC, I unlocked Aurum Vale and asked if anyone wanted to do it with me. They all said that dungeon sucks, and opted to just unsync and carry me through the whole thing.

I appreciated the sentiment, but was pretty disheartened when I saw all of this game design flying by and missing out on it. New players to this day probably are put in this same situation but not as often because of the heavy nerfs.

[Shurrikhan]

Definitely not a meme. I remember a few years ago when I was new and in my first FC, I unlocked Aurum Vale and asked if anyone wanted to do it with me. They all said that dungeon sucks, and opted to just unsync and carry me through the whole thing.

I appreciated the sentiment, but was pretty disheartened when I saw all of this game design flying by and missing out on it. New players to this day probably are put in this same situation but not as often because of the heavy nerfs.

Aurum Vale is fine. It just has incredibly difficult mechanics like "click the thing after getting 2 stacks of debuff", "dodge out of the big circular AoE", "dodge out of the big linear AoE", and "kill adds".

[ReynTime]

Aurum Vale is fine. It just has incredibly difficult mechanics like "click the thing after getting 2 stacks of debuff", "dodge out of the big circular AoE", "dodge out of the big linear AoE", and "kill adds".

You can't pull all enemies in the first room. 99% chance you die if you do. And for the average XIV player not being expected to pull everything warrants pikachu :O face and they don't like it.

[DPZ2]

You can't pull all enemies in the first room. 99% chance you die if you do. And for the average XIV player not being expected to pull everything warrants pikachu :O face and they don't like it.

100% chance the healer dies, as any heals will pull aggro before the tank can get there. After that, 100% change the whole party dies if the healer doesn't rez and get back to healing quick enough.

I still remember the head of our FC taking me through Aurum Vale to learn how to properly use the Bard's AoE. Lots of time spent in that room back in ARR. Good times.

[Shurrikhan]

You can't pull all enemies in the first room. 99% chance you die if you do. And for the average XIV player not being expected to pull everything warrants pikachu :O face and they don't like it.

I mean, they just came out of Stone Vigil. Your Sprint gets you less than half way to the door. Darkhold was more the exception to then-recent trends in that it gives you literal cheese tools (via the crystals' massive mitigation aura) for its first large pull.