Viera and Hrothgar Megathread

[Juzjuzz]

Sir, just wondering what is ambiguous regarding Noctis?

In the case of Noctis yes, i might be wrong. He has strong jaw x)

So you waited me to say this ?
But yeah idk i looked it up like this and he seemed more androgynous than he actualy is in his younger version : https://i.pinimg.com/564x/54/fd/b7/5...3ece3b9901.jpg
Do i have to be perfect and say everything that ppl want to hear like a sheep?

[SturmChurro]

did you pass?

No. However, I have very good eyes, 20/20 vision actually. I have deduced that female viera, do not look "masculine", whether they wear a Nigel Thornberry mustache prop or not. As I also have very good taste, I think my opinion is solid.

so we got confirmation we‘ll get more hairstyles. they didnt say how many tho, did they?

Hopefully a lot, we have been waiting over two years after all. If not many all at once, hopefully they will be regularly updated in the future.

[Awha]

So you waited me to say this ?
But yeah idk i looked it up like this and he seemed more androgynous than he actualy is in his younger version : https://i.pinimg.com/564x/54/fd/b7/5...3ece3b9901.jpg
Do i have to be perfect and say everything that ppl want to hear like a sheep?

Was just wondering what you thought was ambiguous when it came to Noctis. Even his younger self still looks like a male, cannot really pinpoint what someone could view as ambiguous.

You do not have to be perfect but honestly was just wondering since you happen to be the first person / time someone has referred to Noctis as androgynous. So I was curious as to what you felt was ambitious regarding his features.

No. However, I have very good eyes, 20/20 vision actually. I have deduced that female viera, do not look "masculine", whether they wear a Nigel Thornberry mustache prop or not. As I also have very good taste, I think my opinion is solid.

Hopefully a lot, we have been waiting over two years after all. If not many all at once, hopefully they will be regularly updated in the future.

It is a sad day when a Nigel Thornberry mustache still is not enough to push someone over the threshold of manliness.

[Iscah]

I made a collage of some of these FF characters (yes I threw that particular cloud one in as a joke :P) to compare their looks to the new male Viera.

In the case of Noctis yes, i might be wrong. He has strong jaw x)
But what i wanted to say is : when i talk about someone androgynous i look at the shape of the face, without counting the hair, eyelashes or anything that can be changed.
A better example is Cloud : https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fi...oud_Strife.png
And look at lightning : https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fi...ing_FFXIII.png

Guive to Cloud the same hair as Lightning, some makeup and he'll look very feminine. Yet with his current hair and absence of makeup he looks masculine.

Your test is setting characters up to be labelled androgynous, though, and setting the bar of masculinity high.

Makeup is designed to emphasise feminine features. Put it on a man and he's going to look more feminine than he actually is.

You're deciding he's androgynous because he would be if you altered his appearance to make him that way.

And yes, the Viera faces largely are androgynous, but that doesn't change that you're using it too freely for other characters.

For the compilation image above, aside of some of the jawlines, the faces overall indicate to me that they are men. Not super manly men, but definitely men. (Well, except for Kuja. But anyway.) Something in the eyes, the faces, the proportions, tells me that they are almost certainly men.

It also just seems like an overly analytical bit of gatekeeping. Is this character good enough to be qualify as a real man or is he part of the androgynous inbetween?

It's a male character. Whether he's exactly what you want a male character to look like or not, why go looking for a reason to label him something else? Why judge him on how he would hypthetically look like wearing makeup rather than whether he wears it or not?

You call lots of things androgynous (throughout other threads, not just here) and it seems clear from this that you see it because you go looking for it.

Viera have the same type of face but have thick eyelashes by default that guive them a more feminine look without any chance of adjustment. With many of the haircuts being cute, achieving something similar as Cloud is more difficult. It's close sure, but when i tried with my character there are moments where he just looks really close to a girl :

You've picked the cute boyish face. Yes he's inevitably going to look like a girl at times. The hair-in-the-eyes style probably doesn't help either.

People have been posting other examples in the Show Your Viera thread that look more undoubtably masculine - I think mostly with faces 1 and 4. Perhaps counterintuitively I think it's the long hairstyle that seems to look the most manly, particularly the neater swept-back version without the long fringe covering half the face.

Yeah I agree. I think it just boils down to peoples views on what men and women are supposed to look like. In todays world where there is alot of selfexpression and being a beautiful man isnt a bad thing it is honestly a little strange to see this discussion take place. They look like young men, young pretty men, sure, and I could probably find some girls that look like them too, but I dont think looking at the male viera I immediately think "girls".

But this is probably the same discussion as with femroes, to me they look like bodybuilder women and in some cases like dragqueens or even male, still people insist they are very feminine. No they really arent, and that is completely ok. If I want a very feminine looking character I can pick the other races.

I was with you for most of your post until you said female Roegadyn "really aren't" very feminine - you just said yourself that it's subjective, and I would say that they certainly can look very feminine even if it takes more effort than for the other daintier girls. There's a fair range of faces, and some styles of clothing are far more flattering than others.

[Juzjuzz]

...

Maybe i'm setting it up too high yes. I'm a dude who probably lacks a more feminine pov and maybe i'm being stubborn too.

Makeup emphasise feminine features i agree. In Clouds case if you look only at his face and make sure he has a makeup+hair fitting for a very feminine woman, i'm sure somme ppl won't even see it's a dude. He's naturaly androgynous, a male highlander face with makeup and same outfit won't be able to do the same. Cloud usual look makes him more masculine because the hair and outfit are designed for that.
It's a bit like when some manga characters have the same face (only hair, eyes and outfit change), switch the hair and outfit between the hero and the heroine and new ppl will mistake the guy for a girl. Cloud and male viera have that thing going on, but male viera goes an extra step that makes ppl think that they look just girly by default.

The viera i used in all my screenshots is face 1 actually. The eyelashes are just so long that it looks like he used some mascara. Maybe he didn't use makeup sure, all i'm saying is that i can't get rid of it. He doesn't need eyelashes that long to be androgynous imo and some players (or maybe just me lol) will be happy without it.

Yes i call lots of things androgynous, but i don't think i'm looking for it, i actually got a worse impression when i looked on the screenshots of other players before trying. Many screenshots even looked girly to me.

I didn't use face 4 because i don't care about the beard and the eyes just don't look great. So face 1 was just the best choice for me. It was this guy : https://i.imgur.com/JkbzZqI.png
Tried with another hair here : https://i.imgur.com/AsWzPdp.png
Looked like this in his default stance : https://i.imgur.com/syLhxs8.png

[LuciaMirain]

I was with you for most of your post until you said female Roegadyn "really aren't" very feminine - you just said yourself that it's subjective, and I would say that they certainly can look very feminine even if it takes more effort than for the other daintier girls. There's a fair range of faces, and some styles of clothing are far more flattering than others.

But that is the whole point. I wrote TO ME they arent very very feminine, but to others they are. And that in some cases they look more like men. Hence why this discussion is pointless because it is subjective. I wouldn't go into a femroe thread and ask for more feminine features, I like that they are big and look like they could break someones face in. I just don't like them for me to play with.

[LuciaMirain]

Maybe i'm setting it up too high yes. I'm a dude who probably lacks a more feminine pov and maybe i'm being stubborn

The viera i used in all my screenshots is face 1 actually. The eyelashes are just so long that it looks like he used some mascara. Maybe he didn't use makeup sure, all i'm saying is that i can't get rid of it. He doesn't need eyelashes that long to be androgynous imo and some players (or maybe just me lol) will be happy without it.

Yes i call lots of things androgynous, but i don't think i'm looking for it, i actually got a worse impression when i looked on the screenshots of other players before trying. Many screenshots even looked girly to me.

I didn't use face 4 because i don't care about the beard and the eyes just don't look great. So face 1 was just the best choice for me. It was this guy : https://i.imgur.com/JkbzZqI.png
Tried with another hair here : https://i.imgur.com/AsWzPdp.png
Looked like this in his default stance : https://i.imgur.com/syLhxs8.png

Eh, I know plenty of men and boys with long eyelashes, it is a running joke amongst people that men get thick long lashes when women spend alot of money trying to achieve the same.

[Jandor]

Eh, I know plenty of men and boys with long eyelashes, it is a running joke amongst people that men get thick long lashes when women spend alot of money trying to achieve the same.

Need 'em to keep dust out of our eyes while hunting mammoths and stuff, it's a very masculine reason.

[juicybug]

Personally, I don't care about hats- I like a lot of hats and headgear in game but I don't ever make outfits that feature hats. If they'd add more unique Hrothgar/Viera specific hairstyles that featured unique trinkets/built on hair accessories (like how male viera get a feathers- which is something i feel should be expanded upon in the future for new hairstyles for the viera/hrothgar is added hair decorations) and more diversity between hairstyles that aren't just 1 & 2 are the same but 1 has bangs, etc - then maybe it would ease some of the demand for hats.

[juicybug]

I saw we get new Hairstyles for the Vieras... it looks like the ponytail from modern aesthetic. Do you guys think Vieras gets finally all modern aesthetics Hairstyles?

Yes, that's most likely - that and possibly paid ones and *fingers crossed* more racially unique ones for them in the future! Hopefully no vanilla ones.