6.0 Story Speculations

[Tensaihime]

Ah. As simple of that. But of course. You are the eikon-slayer. Such certainty is to be expected. A pity. There is another alternative. Or there would be... had you only mastered your abilities. I speak of the Echo, of course. Does it merely render you immune to eikonic influence? Or is it rather that your influence is far greater than theirs? Granted, these implications are of no moment to a savage, who thinks only of killing the beast before him...

But when I read van Baelsar's repots, I immediately saw the boundless potential of the Echo. I saw how it could be instrumental in binding an eikon to one's will. Hence my research and the Resonant - and oh so much more!

I was waiting for them to elaborate on this! Either I didn’t do the right sidequest or they’re saving the juicy details for EW.

[thegreatonemal]

I was waiting for them to elaborate on this! Either I didn’t do the right sidequest or they’re saving the juicy details for EW.

What elaborating do you need Zenos puts the theory to proof right in front of us.
"And before the Resonat, the gods shall be made to kneel."

[Tensaihime]

I meant how they figured it out, other applications... the kind of “extra” lore I totally have never hung around in a dungeon to read.

[Vyrerus]

Not really final boss material.

Those planned sacrifices I definitely do not care for too much, especially when they prove to be more or less fruitless. The kind of sacrifice I'm talking about though is one of circumstance beyond the character's control, and with them reacting to the situation in accordance with their character. We've seen that three times now too, perhaps more, but only once did it lead to a character's demise. The damage done to the character is always quick. The specific events I refer to go with these quotes:

Oh, do not look at me so... A smile better suits a hero.

Ah, a magical barrier. Alas... It will not save you.

Noooooo! Don't you dare! We came together, and we're leaving together!

Even our ideal hero needs saving now and again, and they've actually been hammering on the point recently that the WoL can't save everyone. But, contrary to that, they seem reticent to actually let characters in the main cast really suffer the consequences of their own actions. If the WoL doesn't have the power to save them, then the scriptwriter does, and it's come to a point now where, we haven't had a major or minor death(or real, lasting consequence) in so long for the good guys that the world ending situation we're supposedly heading towards feels dangerous only in the most tenuous way.

As far as Zenos's intent goes... It doesn't really need to be personal from the outset or for him at all. I'm not saying that he needs to come out of his chair like, "Yeah, I need to fire my friend up by killing his lesser friends. The ones who use him." I'm more thinking that his and Fandaniel's plan still has steps that must be carried out. What happens if a few Scions get in the way where Zenos needs to be doing some killing and other such similar business? They'll clash. I would hope that the writers lack the temerity to have Y'shtola live through another subclavian artery wound (taking a wound there has the victim bleed out in 4.5 seconds). Or any other person he clashes with.

As far as who Zenos is most similar to from other Final Fantasies? Hmm. To me he is most similar to Exdeath from FFV. Was defeated once before. Had a walk about outside of his own body, possessing other bodies in order to get his body out of storage/back. Thirsting for more power despite already being powerful enough to wade through 99.9% of the populace as though they were ants. Completely roflstomps the heroes on their first few encounters. Power he's after has world building and world ending proportions.

[Lyth]

I think Heavensward and Shadowbringers did a reasonably good job of making you feel vulnerable, although the former did it by making you an outcast but then let you gain everyone's trust a little too easily.

Now that I've had time to reflect, I'm going to pin my hopes on Sharlayan's administration being corrupted and you having to beat a retreat in a hurry. Perhaps through the Devil's Road.

I don't know what the solution is to make Zenos more effective as a villain. He's just not a great starting point.

I think the light warden situation was different.

The sin eater transformation was actually an extreme form of tempering. 5.4 goes into this.

The Allagans researched 'Eikonic Corruption' - that is tempering. Owen's thesis, which you find archived in that impertinent node recovered from Alys Lla, explains this further. To temper you, a primal has to polarize your aether to become aligned with theirs, causing it to become stagnant and you to lose your sense of self. Repeated exposure alters your very flesh (i.e. sin eaters, but here they use Sephirot's Binah/Cochma as earth elemental examples of the more extreme form of tempering). The primal takes you over.

To support this, the way that you reverse it is similar to what you do with Halric's sin eater curse, using Beq Lugg's knowledge of soulcrafting to make a porxie conduit to revitalize their aether (although what is the difference between corporeal aether and incorporeal aether?) Presumably, if your soul has more aether density than the primal in question, they can't temper you.

I meant how they figured it out, other applications... the kind of “extra” lore I totally have never hung around in a dungeon to read.

I think the quote that you referenced there hints at the answer. van Baelsar was involved in the original Ultima Weapon project. As you'll recall, Ultima Weapon devours primals to utilize their aether.

Likewise, the Diablo Armament Field Record entry explains that as an alternative to this, a sufficiently strong host can bind high ranked voidsent to their will. The Allagan solution was to do this with warmachina to design the ideal host. Again, I think this comes down to the amount of aether you have. Both these approaches are identical what comes out of our conversation with Zenos at the end of the Stormblood campaign.

All those warmachina we fought this expansion are simply an extension of this concept.

The Resonant project seems to just be a way to give a person access to large amounts of aether, in much the same way that people with the Echo are individuals with higher soul density. You are the vessel. That's also probably why Urianger's aetheric siphon is able to shut down Fordola's Resonant powers. I can't remember when in Stormblood Aulus' scenes occur and whether there was an explicit connection made between his soul transference work and the Weapons project, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's out there.

[Tensaihime]

I think the quote that you referenced there hints at the answer. van Baelsar was involved in the original Ultima Weapon project. As you'll recall, Ultima Weapon devours primals to utilize their aether.

Likewise, the Diablo Armament Field Record entry explains that as an alternative to this, a sufficiently strong host can bind high ranked voidsent to their will. The Allagan solution was to do this with warmachina to design the ideal host. Again, I think this comes down to the amount of aether you have. Both these approaches are identical what comes out of our conversation with Zenos at the end of the Stormblood campaign.

All those warmachina we fought this expansion are simply an extension of this concept.

The Resonant project seems to just be a way to give a person access to large amounts of aether, in much the same way that people with the Echo are individuals with higher soul density. You are the vessel. That's also probably why Urianger's aetheric siphon is able to shut down Fordola's Resonant powers. I can't remember when in Stormblood Aulus' scenes occur and whether there was an explicit connection made between his soul transference work and the Weapons project, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's out there.

Thanks for this! I was excited for the fighty parts of Ala Mhigo, but I admit I forgot some of the details... plus I was scrambling to beat SB and most of ShB before Patch 5.5 dropped and the internet filled up with unavoidable spoilers (I have googled regular old memes and gotten stuff of Vauthry and the Exarch, so I wasn’t taking any chances).

And thanks for reminding me to do the Weapons sidequests already.

I think Heavensward and Shadowbringers did a reasonably good job of making you feel vulnerable, although the former did it by making you an outcast but then let you gain everyone's trust a little too easily.

My guess as to why they quickly trust you: you lost your job, home, good name, most of your crew, and the Blessing of Light; the dragon that took it from you follows you around mocking you, and the city you’re directed to isn’t even safe. The devs probably thought that if, on top of all that, the player spent too much time not getting a freaking break, they’d start resenting the new NPCs and not be invested in solving their problems. As it was, my raid buddy got a nice number of messages asking “you swear Aymeric isn’t gonna use me and then throw me out?” “You swear these rich a[kupo]s aren’t laughing at me behind my back with their rich a[kupo]e friends?” “You swear Haurchefant isn’t going to say I *owe* him for his help and try to [redacted] my WoL?” (I was paranoid, sue me)

Imagine being betrayed and forced to live with the Company of Heroes, they’re always in “Secret Test of Character” mode, and every weekend Aiatar comes to set the front porch on fire. How long till you wanna just shrug and grab the marshmallows?

[Tensaihime]

we haven't had a major or minor death(or real, lasting consequence) in so long for the good guys that the world ending situation we're supposedly heading towards feels dangerous only in the most tenuous way.

I thought about this and then I remembered the trope name, and I wonder if Square might have Zenos and Fanboy using their still-somewhat-unknown abilities on a Throw-Away Country?

I mean, not throwaway throwaway, we’d actually go and spend some time there rather than just hearing about it in a cutscene. Like if Tesleen was a country. Then we’d leave and Zenos would Zenos -maybe we’d be rushing to leave BECAUSE we knew Zenos was about to Zenos. We’d get to clearly see the baddies and their powers are even worse than we thought. We’d get some major consequences without having to lose any of our important real estate (a lot of which is still rebuilding from earlier shenanigans). And with the scale of the destruction, we probably wouldn’t have to hear anybody harping about “this is terrible and we’ve definitely lost and/or about to lose XYZ, but you still must smile and be hopeful because... hey, look over there!” which I personally find kinda grating when there’s nothing to back it up.

I would suggest someone could die on the way out, but even though I fall for it every single time I have noticed that people often do NOT die helping others escape. So there’d still need to be a death scene or two at some other point in the game.

[JeanneOrnitier]

The benchmark trailer is out, which I know doesn't actually show any story events, but it does show new zones and models.

There's an enemy in one part of it that's very reminiscent of Omega. Not in its shape, but in its color scheme and like the patterns on its coating. I wonder what its deal is.

[EdwinLi]

The benchmark trailer is out, which I know doesn't actually show any story events, but it does show new zones and models.

There's an enemy in one part of it that's very reminiscent of Omega. Not in its shape, but in its color scheme and like the patterns on its coating. I wonder what its deal is.

It does show us a important addition to our allies being the surviving members of the Garlean Army now fighting on our side.

This is going to be a strange feeling but I know something people have been waiting to happen.

Leading Garlean forces against a common enemy is going to be a interesting experience.

[KageTokage]

I'm expecting that Omega-like entity to be some cheap Allagan imitation (Though that's not saying much considering how much of a nuisance their other creations have been) Garleans happened across somewhere since I don't think they would've had a chance to research the real deal at any point, and it's likely going to be a boss in the Garlemald dungeon.

I am a little curious about what we'll actually be fighting at the top of the Thravnair tower, though, since I doubt Zenos is going to budge from his spot in Garlemald until preparations are ready for him to go to the moon.