Harassment to Asmongold on his 1st day stream is an Embarassment to FF Community

[Kaurhz]

My point is that this community is pretty much the same as every other online community, with the standard amount of toxicity and bad people.

These little passing opportunities are how FFXIV would distinguish itself from other online communities, if FFXIV wanted to claim some kind of moral superiority. Any time the community is tested like this the result will be the same, though, because this community isn't actually any different.

Sure, it can be just as good, it can be just as bad, but people seem awfully eager to point out the bad, exclusively. with giving very little merit to the good, all just to try and promote the cause of sticking it to the evangelists - The people actually going out there and reporting those sabotaging the experience of someone who just wants to enjoy the game and stream it to his community are worthy of praise not disdain by painting them with the same brush of absurd toxicity.

But like I said if you paint the community with the same brush as the behavior displayed by a minority, then no community will ever reach your standard of conforming to a good community, ever. That's just basic human interaction and behavior. No matter how well regarded or spoken that community is. XIV is no exception. People here are just using the opportunity to 'stick it to the evangelists' - In this regard just as bad as each other.

EDIT: But I see at this point I'm not exactly disagreeing with you, more just venting.

[Goji1639]

Sure, it can be just as good, it can be just as bad, but people seem awfully eager to point out the bad, with giving very little merit to the good, all just to try and promote the cause of sticking it to the evangelists - The people actually going out there and reporting those sabotaging the experience of someone who just wants to enjoy the game and stream it to his community are worthy of praise not disdain by painting them with the same brush of absurd toxicity.

But like I said if you paint the community with the same brush as the behavior displayed by a minority, then no community will ever reach your standard of conforming to a good community, ever. That's just basic human interaction and behavior. No matter how well regarded or spoken that community is. XIV is no exception. People here are just using the opportunity to 'stick it to the evangelists' - In this regard just as bad as each other.

The FFXIV community props itself up as being 'nicer' and 'better' than standard online communities. If you want that distinction then it comes with some extra scrutiny and obligation to actually be better.

When a community attempts to high-road other games, and then has something like this happen, people are obviously going to point it out.

[RyuDragnier]

The FFXIV community props itself up as being 'nicer' and 'better' than standard online communities. If you want that distinction then it comes with some extra scrutiny and obligation to actually be better.

When a community attempts to high-road other games, and then has something like this happen, people are obviously going to point it out.

But using the fact it has happened to try to smear the entire community as bad is...well, it's like you're trying to use what happened to justify treating people horribly like some do outside the game. It tends to irritate and piss people off.

[LittleImp]

I'd like to point out the ToS rework happened in the latter half of Stormblood, and that the idea of the community being morally superior LOOOOONG predates that. Enforcement was much more sparse in ARR and HW, but the community attitude was pretty much the same.

[Goji1639]

But using the fact it has happened to try to smear the entire community as bad is...well, it's like you're trying to justify treating people horribly like some do outside the game. It tends to irritate and piss people off.

The FFXIV community just had a "we're not toxic like those OTHER games" moral high ground it's been trying to establish, and this just kind of shot it to hell. The community set itself up to eat some crow and face scrutiny on this one.

[Almagnus1]

The FFXIV community just had a "we're not toxic like those OTHER games" moral high ground it's been trying to establish, and this just kind of shot it to hell. The community set itself up to eat some crow and face scrutiny on this one.

And we should spend this time to reflect on that... and also go get some ketchup as it makes the bird more palatable.

[Kaurhz]

The FFXIV community props itself up as being 'nicer' and 'better' than standard online communities. If you want that distinction then it comes with some extra scrutiny and obligation to actually be better.

When a community attempts to high-road other games, and then has something like this happen, people are obviously going to point it out.

Yes, extra scrutiny and an obligation to show that it is better and to take into account the entirety of the situation not just cherry-picking the evidence and facts based on a limited exploration into the matter 10 minutes after its occurrence. People didn't even give the community the chance to show large disapproval or agreement for the behavior before taking on the toxic generalism for the entire community, before going even as far as to say the GMs or SE will do nothing.

Both are self-defeating measurements, outlooks, and assertions being made, especially when all that is being done is trying to create or find exceptions. Of the potentially thousands of interactions that occur on a daily basis in this game, people are going to call the entire community toxic just based on one, or a couple. Now, granted this works vice versa for the evangelists. But there's only so far you can take such absurd generalizations regardless of which side of the coin you place yourself on.

Saying the community has incredibly toxic and unwelcoming individuals, sure I'd agree with you on every single occasion you want to make this assertion, but to call a community toxic, an entire community, mind you, not just select individuals toxic is where you will get issues, especially when on these occasions you have an abundance of people shunning the behavior.

People don't like having negative connotations attached to their names in a mind-boggling generalization based on the actions of a very small portion of the community.

[Goji1639]

Saying the community has incredibly toxic and unwelcoming individuals, sure I'd agree with you on every single occasion you want to make this assertion, but to call a community toxic, an entire community, mind you, not just select individuals toxic is where you will get issues, especially when on these occasions you have an abundance of people shunning the behavior.

You're a little too hung up on semantics. No one actually thinks that every single person in this, or any community is toxic. It's ALWAYS a minority.

Problem is the FFXIV community has been trying to sell itself as being different; the exception to the rule that online games have these pervasive toxic elements. It may be a minority, but this WAS still large scale targeted harassment; it was bad. The majority denouncing stuff like this is what would/should happen in any online game, but FFXIV undeniably has a strong pool of toxicity, same as any other online community. This community is not different and it's not better.

[DBriggs304]

You're a little too hung up on semantics. No one actually thinks that every single person in this, or any community is toxic. It's ALWAYS a minority.

Problem is the FFXIV community has been trying to sell itself as being different; the exception to the rule that online games have these pervasive toxic elements. It may be a minority, but this WAS still large scale targeted harassment. The majority denouncing stuff like this is what would/should happen in any online game, but FFXIV undeniably has a strong toxic element same as any other online community. It's community is not different and it's not better.

It is different.
No...its not toxic like those other communities and yes...it IS better.

[Almagnus1]

Saying the community has incredibly toxic and unwelcoming individuals, sure I'd agree with you on every single occasion you want to make this assertion, but to call a community toxic, an entire community, mind you, not just select individuals toxic is where you will get issues, especially when on these occasions you have an abundance of people shunning the behavior.

I think this is something we're going to look back on as a faceplant, but from this point forward it matters how we react to what has gone done thus far.

If we truly are one of the best communities around, we need to be loud and clear in our condemnation of stream sniping and gatekeeping. We must do whatever we can (within the TOS and CoC) to shut down the stream sniping and gate keeping behavior. We need to be supportive and welcoming to new players, yet restrained and respectful with giving them help so we don't send them to information overload and only giving them help when they are asking for it. We need to be patient with the sprouts, for they are our future and we must show them the way.

We can do this, and we can show the rest of the world why we are #1.