Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[LisSquid]

I mean wouldn't what passes for a female type body shape largely be based around personal cultural, social, and personal bias?

Yup. Which is why transphobes have this past time of debating whether celebrities and athletes are truly cis or not by "analyzing" their body and facial structures. Often times becoming convinced cis people are trans.

Like, surprise! It's all fake!

[Allegor]

To be fair, that would be a good argument if female Viera also looked rather androgynous, but they don't - they're very painfully clearly hot Victoria's Secret supermodels, and if we're implying that is their beauty standard for being a race predominantly female, then every single male has been treated or are even still seen as ugly ducklings if they're not feminine enough (perhaps that is the true reason they're exiled to guard the outskirts of the forest lol)

That said, a 'true androgynous' race would be an interesting concept, but I think it's a little late for that /shrug

[SomeRandomHuman]

That said, a 'true androgynous' race would be an interesting concept, but I think it's a little late for that /shrug

This would've been a nice idea to roll with. Not sayin male viera should've been this. Just that it would've been a cool idea.

I know lalafell looks very similar between their genders but their design still just screams "chibi" to me far, far more than "androgynous"

[Senn]

To be fair, that would be a good argument if female Viera also looked rather androgynous, but they don't - they're very painfully clearly hot Victoria's Secret supermodels, and if we're implying that is their beauty standard for being a race predominantly female, then every single male has been treated or are even still seen as ugly ducklings if they're not feminine enough (perhaps that is the true reason they're exiled to guard the outskirts of the forest lol)

That said, a 'true androgynous' race would be an interesting concept, but I think it's a little late for that /shrug

I think we're applying human standards to a race that isn't human. The idea of what's considered masculine and feminine is different when it comes to the viera. It's not that the male viera are feminine, it's that the males and females look similar, therefore making them androgynous. I guess with this logic, the female viera would too be considered androgynous within their own race because they look similar to the males. Obviously to us players, the female viera are clearly feminine supermodels, but it may not be viewed that way in the game's story. I hope I'm making sense.

[Fukuro]

I think we're applying human standards to a race that isn't human. The idea of what's considered masculine and feminine is different when it comes to the viera.

i also think when people tend to think of „human standards“ they mostly mean western society. if we compare them to the asian society the standards are different. male idols are more on the „pretty, young“ side of things.

asian beauty standard:

western beauty standard:



these things don‘t apply for everyone tho. everybody has their own liking of things. i just think m viera were created with asian beauty standards in mind while hyur for example i‘d consider as western beauty standard.

[Senn]

...

I think you're right, it does seem like the design choice for male viera were inspired more by asian beauty standards rather than western standards. They look bishounen.

[Itsgigglez]

They look bishounen.

my lizard brain read that as Bitchounen.

But how do they look bishounen? They just look like twinks to me-- Unless bishounen is a type of twink.

[Senn]

my lizard brain read that as Bitchounen.

But how do they look bishounen? They just look like twinks to me-- Unless bishounen is a type of twink.

I just did a quick search on google, but bishounen is "a young man of androgynous beauty" which I think fits well.
I've seen many people describe male viera as twink, but I'm honestly not sure what that means. Can you explain for me?

[Allegor]

I think we're applying human standards to a race that isn't human. The idea of what's considered masculine and feminine is different when it comes to the viera. It's not that the male viera are feminine, it's that the males and females look similar, therefore making them androgynous. I guess with this logic, the female viera would too be considered androgynous within their own race because they look similar to the males. Obviously to us players, the female viera are clearly feminine supermodels, but it may not be viewed that way in the game's story. I hope I'm making sense.

That was my point though, female Viera are clearly not androgynous, so male Viera would have to intentionally make themselves look feminine to even be confused with one past puberty, and that's only assuming they even have beauty standards. [just in case my wording is hot garbage, I'm not saying males should be more masculine or anything, just that the "they look like each other" doesn't hold water when females are very clearly females, so it's the males that get the short end of the stick in that context.]

Also yes, it's hard to not make real life association when the way they're designed doesn't go far off real life conventional beauty either - female Viera don't only look feminine, they look hot, male gaze power fantasy feminine, even when in the game's universe not all of them may look like that.

my lizard brain read that as Bitchounen.

But how do they look bishounen? They just look like twinks to me-- Unless bishounen is a type of twink.

Twink is basically how the west describes bishounen, they're not exactly the same word because 'twink' has its roots in gay guys, but uhhh... "aesthetically" they're pretty much the same

[Senn]

That was my point though, female Viera are clearly not androgynous, so male Viera would have to intentionally make themselves look feminine to even be confused with one past puberty, and that's only assuming they even have beauty standards. [just in case my wording is hot garbage, I'm not saying males should be more masculine or anything, just that the "they look like each other" doesn't hold water when females are very clearly females, so it's the males that get the short end of the stick in that context.]

Also yes, it's hard to not make real life association when the way they're designed doesn't go far off real life conventional beauty either - female Viera don't only look feminine, they look hot, male gaze power fantasy feminine, even when in the game's universe not all of them may look like that.

So I just want to say that female viera clearly look like women. When I look at a female viera, I see a woman, plain and simple.

However, talking about this in terms of the ingame universe and lore: the female viera could be considered androgynous within their own race/species since they look similar to the males and vice versa. Not entirely so, there are some differences. But those differences aren't as big as some of the other races in the game (not including lalafell). I'm just strictly talking about the point of view inside the ffxiv world itself, not real life. And I don't think the male viera got the short end of the stick, they are just born that way. That's their baseline. Just to reiterate, they don't look feminine, they look like male viera. This is just what they happen to look like. Our human standards of femininity and masculinity probably don't apply to them.

Edit:

Twink is basically how the west describes bishounen, they're not exactly the same word because 'twink' has its roots in gay guys, but uhhh... "aesthetically" they're pretty much the same

Oh... good to know loool I don't know where this whole LGBT thing is coming from.

I've had it explained to me that Twinks are young men between 18-25 who look young? Like the best way I could describe someone as that word is Ezreal from LoL

I see, got it.

Thanks for explaining guys.