What is parsing?

[ForteNightshade]

You don’t need numbers to tell if you’re making progress or not. You either are, or are not. If you’re not dying and you’re hitting your proper rotation, odds are your performance is good.

Or your team mates are carrying you through said content. When I'm within the top ten on Warrior in something like Paradigm's Breach. Suffice it to say, people aren't "hitting your proper rotation."

I don't need to see my numbers to know if I'm getting better. I'm already aware if my rotation could improve, where I messed up my rotation, or where I messed up on the fight that hurt my dps. Get enough experience and that comes naturally.

You do realize that rotation you're using is made through a parser, yes? So even at face value, you're indirectly benefiting from a parser.

[Ranaku]

Or your team mates are carrying you through said content. When I'm within the top ten on Warrior in something like Paradigm's Breach. Suffice it to say, people aren't "hitting your proper rotation."



You do realize that rotation you're using is made through a parser, yes? So even at face value, you're indirectly benefiting from a parser.

Yes! Wait...what? Let us be fair here, i learned my rotation from the game not from some parser. But yes i guess for some people it's too hard to press 1-2-3 (etc.) without a addon or rotation guide. Jokes aside there are some valid arguments for damage meters, you don't have to make stuff up lol.

[ZedxKayn]

Yes! Wait...what? Let us be fair here, i learned my rotation from the game not from some parser. But yes i guess for some people it's too hard to press 1-2-3 (etc.) without a addon or rotation guide. Jokes aside there are some valid arguments for damage meters, you don't have to make stuff up lol.

But have you ever searched up a guide for your job or your character on fflogs before?
If not, how would you know that the rotation you're doing is correct? Because the game teaches absolutely nothing and gives no feedback, which is why a lot of people, unbeknownst to them, aren't exactly stellar.

I wonder, because I see a lot of players claiming they know what they're doing when they're not using crucial parts of their kits.

[Ranaku]

But have you ever searched up a guide for your job or your character on fflogs before?
If not, how would you know that the rotation you're doing is correct? Because the game teaches absolutely nothing and gives no feedback, which is why a lot of people, unbeknownst to them, aren't exactly stellar.

I wonder, because I see a lot of players claiming they know what they're doing when they're not using crucial parts of their kits.

The game teaches you everything you have to know. Heck how do you think the people who made the guides found out? Throug some visions from hydaelyn and yoshi p after they smoked too much? And how did stuff worked before damage meters were a thing? Guess in ancient times people never did their rotations right. The really linear job design of FFXIV isn't really rocketscience.

I can see how guides are useful to many players but heck saying the rotations exist just because of some damage meter and everyone using a jobs rotation in the right way does that cause of these guides/damage meters is a really really bold statement.

[Avidria]

The game teaches you everything you have to know. Heck how do you think the people who made the guides found out? Throug some visions from hydaelyn and yoshi p after they smoked too much? And how did stuff worked before damage meters were a thing? Guess in ancient times people never did their rotations right. The really linear job design of FFXIV isn't really rocketscience.

I can see how guides are useful to many players but heck saying the rotations exist just because of some damage meter and everyone using a jobs rotation in the right way does that cause of these guides/damage meters is a really really bold statement.

Most of the guides and rotations I've read are in fact developed using parsing and simulation to figure out what's actually optimum, down to exactly what gear and materia is actually best in slot. They didn't magic the information out of nowhere, but odds are good that a fair number of people didn't do it solely with what's available in game either. I'd imagine the people who made the mods and did the math put in the time to learn how the game works, but I also don't know anything about how they were actually put together so I dunno really. And I mean, I'm sure it's entirely possible to figure out something fairly close to the most optimal rotation just from the game alone, but how many people are going to actually do that? Easier to look up a guide made by someone who did the work already, and even better if they've got quantifiable data and tools to help define what the best options actually, definitely are.

I don't run a parser and never have but one example that ZedxKayn's post reminded me of is this bard I used to play with back in Heavensward who was absolutely convinced that they were doing more damage without using minuet EVER than a bard who is using it. Based on the numbers that could be found online though... they were consistently doing less than half of my damage, and I was by no means an amazing bard. They thought they had the class figured out based on what the game was telling them but they very clearly did not. Bit of an extreme example since it involves someone actively ignoring part of their kit, but I've seen enough people who were very confidently wrong that it wouldn't surprise me if there were plenty who genuinely believe they've figured it out from just playing the game when they're really way farther off base than they think.

[HyoMinPark]

The game teaches you everything you have to know. Heck how do you think the people who made the guides found out? Throug some visions from hydaelyn and yoshi p after they smoked too much? And how did stuff worked before damage meters were a thing? Guess in ancient times people never did their rotations right. The really linear job design of FFXIV isn't really rocketscience.

I can see how guides are useful to many players but heck saying the rotations exist just because of some damage meter and everyone using a jobs rotation in the right way does that cause of these guides/damage meters is a really really bold statement.

Players that make job guides use parsers. Combined with analyzing tooltips, they also spent countless hours on dummies and using rotation simulators to find out the most optimal openers and rotations. DNC and GNB theorycrafters were crafting openers and rotational guides before Shadowbringers even released. I’m sure it will be the same for Sage and Reaper once we have tooltip and potency information on them.

This game doesn’t give you anything beyond tooltips and dotted lines around 1-2-3 combos. It doesn’t tell you anything more than that outside of quest blurbs about new skills (though those certainly don’t tell you how to use said skills). It fell to the playerbase to determine things outside of the bare basics of pressing 1-2-3 in the correct order—and the ones who did all this theorycrafting utilized numbers and parsers.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this game isn’t as straightforward as you think. It may handhold a lot, but it doesn’t handhold when it comes to rotations.

[Ranaku]

Players that make job guides use parsers. Combined with analyzing tooltips, they also spent countless hours on dummies and using rotation simulators to find out the most optimal openers and rotations. DNC and GNB theorycrafters were crafting openers and rotational guides before Shadowbringers even released. I’m sure it will be the same for Sage and Reaper once we have tooltip and potency information on them.

This game doesn’t give you anything beyond tooltips and dotted lines around 1-2-3 combos. It doesn’t tell you anything more than that outside of quest blurbs about new skills (though those certainly don’t tell you how to use said skills). It fell to the playerbase to determine things outside of the bare basics of pressing 1-2-3 in the correct order—and the ones who did all this theorycrafting utilized numbers and parsers.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this game isn’t as straightforward as you think. It may handhold a lot, but it doesn’t handhold when it comes to rotations.

I never denied that the players who make the guides use parsers. Never denied it isn't helpful for new players etc. who maybe want to get into the endgame quick buy boosters and need to learn quick how to perform well.

But sorry to burst your bubble, the game is really straight forward when it comes to rotations. There isn't any variables like for example on world of warcraft where you can use differend specs or talents and all that stuff. In XIV there is one fix rotation made by the developers, there is one way how a job is meant to be played. And you don't need a guide to tell you that especially if you play from lvl 1 up to max level where you can get used with every new action to said action and new combo chains they give you.

And it still doesn't answer the question, how do you guys (and gurls) think they did it before parsers and guides? Guess fellas never cleared stuff before these people descended from the heavens to bless us with their wisdom cause we can't use our brains. Guess back then in ARR all our clears were just pure luck, especially when the game came fresh out. Weird.

[HyoMinPark]

I never denied that the players who make the guides use parsers. Never denied it isn't helpful for new players etc. who maybe want to get into the endgame quick buy boosters and need to learn quick how to perform well.

Your post I replied to insinuated the complete opposite. You asked how guidemakers found out what rotations were, and then pointed to the game telling them. Not a parse. This game gives you tooltips and base potencies, and it lights up for straight combos. It does not tell you how to string them together in any form of a rotation. Guidemakers configured this using parse and simulation data.

But sorry to burst your bubble, the game is really straight forward when it comes to rotations. There isn't any variables like for example on world of warcraft where you can use differend specs or talents and all that stuff. In XIV there is one fix rotation made by the developers, there is one way how a job is meant to be played. And you don't need a guide to tell you that especially if you play from lvl 1 up to max level where you can get used with every new action to said action and new combo chains they give you.

Except this game is not straight-forward at all when it comes to rotations. One can figure out a basic one on their own, but the game does not tell you nor illustrate it for you. It gives no hints on it outside of relying on you, the player, to read the tooltips and figure it out. Which, I recall someone else saying in this same thread, people are very bad at doing.

Take BRD for example. This game doesn’t tell you what your song rotation is. Instead, it hands you the songs in the following order: Mage’s Ballad, Army’s Paeon, and Wanderer’s Minuet. But that is not the correct rotation in a single target situation. The correct rotation is Minuet > Mage’s > Army’s, with Army’s being clipped at 10 seconds remaining to re-enter Minuet the second it is off cooldown. Does the game tell you this? Not at all. Does it tell you to use Raging Strikes with Minuet in a single target scenario? Not at all. What about Apex Arrow at 95-100 gauge and not a second before (in a single target scenario)? Not at all. Parsers and simulators found this out. None of it is explained in the game.

Same goes for all jobs. DNC and GNB start at level 60 and what does the game tell you to do in terms of a rotation for them? Read tooltips and figure it out. Doesn’t sound very straightforward and handholdy to me. Not in the way your post I replied to implied.

And it still doesn't answer the question, how do you guys (and gurls) think they did it before parsers and guides? Guess fellas never cleared stuff before these people descended from the heavens to bless us with their wisdom cause we can't use our brains. Guess back then in ARR all our clears were just pure luck, especially when the game came fresh out. Weird.

Clear rates weren’t that high in ARR (buggy raids aside), and people didn’t really know how to play the game just yet. However, there were still add-ons even back then. Just not the ones we’ve developed and use today.

[Canadane]

But sorry to burst your bubble, the game is really straight forward when it comes to rotations. There isn't any variables like for example on world of warcraft where you can use differend specs or talents and all that stuff. In XIV there is one fix rotation made by the developers, there is one way how a job is meant to be played. And you don't need a guide to tell you that especially if you play from lvl 1 up to max level where you can get used with every new action to said action and new combo chains they give you.

I wish it was as simple as that. Then people would know how to play well.
The average player isn't uh, isn't performing as well as they could be if they only had a bit more information.

And it still doesn't answer the question, how do you guys (and gurls) think they did it before parsers and guides? Guess fellas never cleared stuff before these people descended from the heavens to bless us with their wisdom cause we can't use our brains. Guess back then in ARR all our clears were just pure luck, especially when the game came fresh out. Weird.

There were parsers for FFXIV before ARR even existed.

[Liam_Harper]

The game teaches you everything you have to know.

Oh no. Make it stop.