Living dead must change

[Agner]

Why does Living Dead even need a drawback?

Legitimately, the only reason I can think of is because it states in Encyclopedia Eorzea that using the move is pretty much mortally dangerous. This would make you think that they'd actually opt to make it fun instead of... y'know, not, or at least give us "dangerous" mechanics that don't outright kill us instead of this. But hey, we've already been over that whole subject with abilities like Souleater, but it still begs the question why it has to apply to LD instead lol

[Lyth]

Living Dead is universally a weaker form of Holmgang, even before the drawback. It's not risk for reward. It's just risk. Fights are scripted down to the second, and a simple google search should give you a timeline for any fight that you like. If you're struggling with timing cooldowns as a tank, you should probably take up botany as your main progression job instead.

...

It doesn't even make sense from a lore standpoint. Dark Knights are outcasts, feared by oppressor and oppressed alike. It's all about being self-sufficient. I understand how the bit about fighting past pain fits into the worldbuilding. I don't see the part where the lorebook states that we need to be babysat by a healer, though.

Furthermore, there's also this bit from the DRK quest chain:
So as I was saying, that heretic was fighting like a man possessed. Even after he took several wounds, he showed no sign of pain─though there was no mistaking the blood. As the fight wore on, it began to soak through his armor, spreading to every ilm of his body. But when it began to rise and envelop him as a mist, I realized it wasn't blood, but something dark and twisted...

Where's the part where the damage that we've received gives rise to a dark and twisted aura? I feel like we're cherry picking parts of the lore that excuse the status quo.

[Kalaam]

Furthermore, there's also this bit from the DRK quest chain:
So as I was saying, that heretic was fighting like a man possessed. Even after he took several wounds, he showed no sign of pain─though there was no mistaking the blood. As the fight wore on, it began to soak through his armor, spreading to every ilm of his body. But when it began to rise and envelop him as a mist, I realized it wasn't blood, but something dark and twisted...

Where's the part where the damage that we've received gives rise to a dark and twisted aura? I feel like we're cherry picking parts of the lore that excuse the status quo.

Well, to me that sounds like Fray used Living Dead when his wounds became serious, died and his inner darkness kept him going for a bit until they managed to take him down for good.

[Lyth]

...

It also sounds like the wounds that Frey took while on trial were being turned into some kind of dark and twisted aura that let them fight for even longer before falling. That's quite different from "Frey took mortal damage, swung back for about 10 seconds, and then toppled over spontaneously because they didn't receive Benediction."

I can imagine it now.
Dark Knight: Walking Dead activates!
Temple Knight: Alright, I'm going to go grab a coffee. Be back in five. Oh good, he's dead.
Kind of anticlimactic.

Where's the dark twisted aura? I'm pretty sure that players have been asking for a proper darkness aura on DRK since its release, like what we get in the cutscenes. Where's the blood armor? Does the damage received get turned into some kind of defensive tool? I mean, the lore description actually sounds like something interesting.

[Vyrerus]

It also sounds like the wounds that Frey took while on trial were being turned into some kind of dark and twisted aura that let them fight for even longer before falling. That's quite different from "Frey took mortal damage, swung back for about 10 seconds, and then toppled over spontaneously because they didn't receive Benediction."

I can imagine it now.
Dark Knight: Walking Dead activates!
Temple Knight: Alright, I'm going to go grab a coffee. Be back in five. Oh good, he's dead.
Kind of anticlimactic.

Where's the dark twisted aura? I'm pretty sure that players have been asking for a proper darkness aura on DRK since its release, like what we get in the cutscenes. Where's the blood armor? Does the damage received get turned into some kind of defensive tool? I mean, the lore description actually sounds like something interesting.

The write up of Fray vs. a Temple Knight is definitely written, at least in English (anyone got the JP script?), to sound like it's some sorta mystical, eerie unearthly method of fighting beyond one's means.

I'm thinking the dev intent for Living Dead is just that. To fight beyond one's means, rather than to be used as we use it. Silly, I know, but I've experienced a handful of Living Dead clutch moments, some more epic than others. What makes it feel epic is the desperation, as if other tanks were in the same scenario, there wouldn't be as much tension.

Maybe they should rename it to the DRK merit trait from FFXI, "Desperate Blows." Hehe. Or at least the ATP+ Discount Berserk from FFXI DRK, "Last Resort." Though this makes me think, is it like Hallowed Ground in JP? Completely renamed for us, as HG is just Invincible?

I'll try a "creative" writing description of the last time I had a clutch moment with Living Dead.


The Moon Goddess's whirling fans pirouetted around Clyde and his allies, confusing most of them. Clyde called out to his party, trying to guide them through the whorl of blades, but it had been a pitched battle, and in their exasperation, the Dark Knight's allies were cut one too many times as the Goddess ground them into dust with a relentless assault of black and blue aether. Refocusing her malicious gaze on Clyde, Tsukuyomi beared down on him with another set of bladed fans, and she cried, "WORM!" Imbuing her twin chokutos with aether, one of light and one of darkness. Clyde raised a hand and erected a barrier of shadows, immediately drawing his sword into an almost embrace, cloaking himself in a bulwark of deepest black. Even with these measures in place, Tsukuyomi still rent more holes in the Dark Knight's armor and body, wringing a little more blood out of the man. A little tête-à-tête ensued between the two fighters, their exhaustion and wounds showing. Clyde smashed a max potion over his face, if only to get some of the blood and sweat out of his eyes, though it was also fair to say that it was a reflex of resolve. He parried the Moon Goddess's chokutos once, twice, three times, and then she tried to direct his movements with more fans and a wide aetherial slice with her dark blade. When that failed she burst out a bright reprimand, as she had many times before in this battle, guaranteeing a solid hit on anyone nearby. Clyde was spent, but he drew on his inner darkness, and some of the blood coalesced with his aether, into a bright scarlet orb, which he stuffed into his breast, allowing him to strike the Goddess five times with all of his might. Tsukuyomi dropped the fans again while spitting through clenched teeth, "I'll grind you under my heel!" Light and dark energy glimmered off of her twin blades, and in response the spent Dark Knight thrust his blade into the transmogrified castrum's floor. A seemingly inhuman roar issued out of his body, as he screamed towards the sky, the blood issuing from his many wounds evaporated into vermillion flames. As pure resolve shrieked its way out of Clyde's body, the first black and white aether bomb hit, and had Clyde not been so resolved he would have instantly been incapacitated, possibly even killed. His limbs acted on his intent alone, and struck the Moon Goddess. Another bomb erupted from her blades that she swung out into the air as if they were scepters of a sort. Again and again and again, in rapid succession she scorched Clyde and the ground around him, but every explosion was answered with another stroke of Clyde's sword, until at last the Dark Knight sprang into the air, and thrust his grim blade into the Goddess's heart. She wretched back in pain, exploding into pure vermillion before compressing into a radiant orb of white which slowly descended to the now normal castrum floor. Out fell Yotsuyu.

I would write about how Clyde fell to the ground, unconscious, but uhh... in Trials and raids, if the victory battle is won, then Walking Dead wears off without you dying... which is something it does nowhere else after combat, afaik. At least ever since they altered it, I guess. I mean, it still sucks, but these super rare clutch moments do kind of give it a special place in my heart.

[Agner]

Where's the part where the damage that we've received gives rise to a dark and twisted aura? I feel like we're cherry picking parts of the lore that excuse the status quo.

Right, it wasn't really intended to be much of an excuse—more just an attempted explanation as to why we rear our heads towards the heavens and ask "dear god, why did you give us this horrible ability?".

Does it really say that?
Haha that's kinda cute. I wonder what other cute fluff in there I've missed.
And yeah, your comment makes me wonder if the devs find it fun... or more conceptually interesting.

Yeah, it says: "This dark art allows the practitioner to continue fighting through the most heinous of injuries, and exhibit an immunity to pain usually attributed to the shambling undead. Though undeniably effective, abandoning one’s corporeal form to negative energy in this manner, however briefly, is an act fraught with mortal peril."

Where's the dark twisted aura? I'm pretty sure that players have been asking for a proper darkness aura on DRK since its release, like what we get in the cutscenes. Where's the blood armor? Does the damage received get turned into some kind of defensive tool? I mean, the lore description actually sounds like something interesting.

Maybe one of DRK's Endwalker abilities will be to sit in a corner and get ignored like usual. Seriously though, we've been asking since Heavensward!

Why not just remove invulns period and force people to do mechanics.

I wish, man. Most succinct thing I've heard regarding invulns, lol. At this point I wouldn't be against them just replacing invulns to add more unique factors to each tank kit—but I say that as a DRK player, we kind of have the least to lose in a scenario like that. Minus maybe the animation, would anyone really miss Living Dead? I know I sure wouldn't miss people telling me to use it when I did, only for them to end up letting me die whether or not I use a macro.

I feel like Superbolide, as funny as it is, shows they were kind of struggling what the hell they wanted to do when it came to a new tank invuln. I could be wrong, maybe it's also lore relevant and they had an idea in mind, but I still find it a bit worrying. I'd like to feel like I'm fighting for my life and the life of my party as a tank, and I don't really think invulns cut it in that regard.

I guess at the end of the day, I'll leave my thoughts on LD here. Dark Knights are given this in their description: "Their greatswords act as beacons to guide the meek through darkness." Even our symbol is basically the blade of a sword with a guiding star mimicking the handle, but we still need to rely on healers pissing themselves on an ability that should ease the burden. Give me a break!