Parsers add replayability for casual players

[NanaWiloh]

Wouldn't that... be a good thing?

When players are allowed to choose when and if they go that far.

[Fawkes]

Maybe the guy who owns the crab tank should take out all the water so both the crabs are at the same height.

[Mikey_R]

Whilst skimming through some of the more recent posts, I read something that gave me a thought. I can't find it, however I think it was something along the lines of, we should add a parser and just see how the community reacts. I don't want to speculate into this area though, I want to, think of the reverse scenario. Take WoW as it is now and completely ban all parsers. Nothing officially supported, nothing unofficially supported, what would the community do? As an extra thought, what if they had the same policy as FFXIV, you can use it, just don't harass others with it. Again, how would the community react?

I cannot answer this question, I have never played WoW, so I have absolutely no idea how bad/good they are in terms of parsers except the anecdotal statement presented by other people. Obviously, there is going to be a range of answers to this, however, it could paint a picture of how ingrained the parser is on WoW and how much it does affect the community as a whole.

[Caurcas]

You have to cut down the tall poppy after all.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

Something interesting to note.

I lot of people laud FFXIV as a superior community.

Yet they say we can't be trusted with a parser.

Is the only thing that keeps our people in line the rigid rules that WoW players don't have to conform to?

Like, we're basically all a WoW community but just thoroughly muzzled in comparison?

[Raelsar]

Whilst skimming through some of the more recent posts, I read something that gave me a thought. I can't find it, however I think it was something along the lines of, we should add a parser and just see how the community reacts. I don't want to speculate into this area though, I want to, think of the reverse scenario. Take WoW as it is now and completely ban all parsers. Nothing officially supported, nothing unofficially supported, what would the community do? As an extra thought, what if they had the same policy as FFXIV, you can use it, just don't harass others with it. Again, how would the community react?

I cannot answer this question, I have never played WoW, so I have absolutely no idea how bad/good they are in terms of parsers except the anecdotal statement presented by other people. Obviously, there is going to be a range of answers to this, however, it could paint a picture of how ingrained the parser is on WoW and how much it does affect the community as a whole.

I'm largely done with the debate in this thread as a whole... but this is an interesting little thought experiment.

For adding a parser in FFXIV, the immediate effects wouldn't be much apart from an immediate uptick of players suddenly becoming more "competitive" as a whole... and more aggressive & "excitable". Still, the change would be subtle at first; but the long-term effects would be quite pronounced and completely change the nature of the community.

That's kind of the thing with parsers, they immediately tickle that competitive instinct. For those that are naturally competitive, it's not an easy thing to get through that there are quite a few players who REALLY don't like the atmosphere it creates.

---

As for removing parsers from WoW... that's not really possible, or at least you'd find the add-on developers go into a frenzy to work around whatever the developers broke to prevent how they were currently used. Add-on support has been built into the game since the beginning, so it's not really possible to remove them entirely. The flip side on this is that the default UI for WoW is almost intentionally under-developed, as they don't spend much resources to update it; after all, why bother when add-on developers will do it for you and for free?

Instituting a rule against using them for harassment - coupled with actually enforcing the rule (another issue with WoW) - you'd find 10-25% of the endgame community banned overnight. Nearly everyone in endgame content (which is a huge majority of the playerbase) uses them, so it comes down to what proportion will overstep their bounds. In any case, it'd be the biggest ban-wave the game has ever seen.

... and the outcry on the forums would be the stuff of legends.

[Katie_Kitty]

I’m genuinely curious about your logs now cause I’m nosey af. Maybe one day I will prove myself worthy of such knowledge.

I don't really have anything against what this guy is saying, but I agree. I think it's pretty lousy to run around expressing opinions on the topic while hiding your own data.

[ForteNightshade]

How old is that message and would it hold for all GMs considering even that GM admitted to the limited/wrong text being used in the interface?

Regardless, it's an interesting wording there:

"...not constitute a breach of our rules, since they did not act with the sole purpose of disrupting your gameplay."

If being prevented from playing and clearing a duty because you were kicked is not a problem because it does not necessarily mean the ones who kicked you acted with the sole purpose of disrupting your gameplay, that reasoning could potentially be applied to other situations.

Fairly old, admittedly. It predates the ToS update they did last year. However, said update is also incredibly nebulous, which allows someone to more or less justify anything. You can easily argue that a healer refusing to AoE is disrupting your gameplay. If I were to take a guess at their approach, the GMs likely lean towards the least problematic outcome. If someone is kicked, they see it as enough people didn't want to play with them so better they all part ways. Not a good stance for them to take, however it's the one I suspect as even today, you'll never hear anyone comment on being suspended for "vote kick abuse." Not even on reddit or discord, where people are more open about rules they've broke.

[linayar]

I never said you asked a question either.

I didn't ask anything, a question or otherwise.

But it seems you care a lot about my numbers...

Then you're blind, or delusional, because I don't.

Whilst skimming through some of the more recent posts, I read something that gave me a thought. I can't find it, however I think it was something along the lines of, we should add a parser and just see how the community reacts. I don't want to speculate into this area though, I want to, think of the reverse scenario. Take WoW as it is now and completely ban all parsers. Nothing officially supported, nothing unofficially supported, what would the community do? As an extra thought, what if they had the same policy as FFXIV, you can use it, just don't harass others with it. Again, how would the community react?

I cannot answer this question, I have never played WoW, so I have absolutely no idea how bad/good they are in terms of parsers except the anecdotal statement presented by other people. Obviously, there is going to be a range of answers to this, however, it could paint a picture of how ingrained the parser is on WoW and how much it does affect the community as a whole.

When you've built up a community on certain freedoms and then restrict it, there would be negative reactions to it.

Something interesting to note.

I lot of people laud FFXIV as a superior community.

Yet they say we can't be trusted with a parser.

Is the only thing that keeps our people in line the rigid rules that WoW players don't have to conform to?

Like, we're basically all a WoW community but just thoroughly muzzled in comparison?

A community includes rules and regulations and their enforcement. It's like a nation and its laws. You don't separate them.

Thus, it's hard to actually compare hypothetical situations when comparing different communities. That said, many MMORPG players do play multiple MMORPGs. And in as much as there are WoW players playing FFXIV (and/or vice versa), those would be shared commonalities between the two communities.

Fairly old, admittedly. It predates the ToS update they did last year. However, said update is also incredibly nebulous, which allows someone to more or less justify anything. You can easily argue that a healer refusing to AoE is disrupting your gameplay. If I were to take a guess at their approach, the GMs likely lean towards the least problematic outcome. If someone is kicked, they see it as enough people didn't want to play with them so better they all part ways. Not a good stance for them to take, however it's the one I suspect as even today, you'll never hear anyone comment on being suspended for "vote kick abuse." Not even on reddit or discord, where people are more open about rules they've broke.

Perhaps, though it kind of makes that "unjustified usage" warning a lie. Still, if anyone ever finds out the line that shouldn't be crossed when vote kicking, that'd be interesting to know.

From my personal experience, it's always been AFK/Offline that are used. Even when people disagree, very rarely do I see harassment used (actually, I don't even remember seeing it in FFXIV though I'm sure I must have since I have seen some heated disagreements from time to time, though thankfully not often, but I just can't remember). And cheating has never once showed up, though I suspect people who cheat would form their own group.

[Ftail]

Something interesting to note.

I lot of people laud FFXIV as a superior community.

Yet they say we can't be trusted with a parser.

Is the only thing that keeps our people in line the rigid rules that WoW players don't have to conform to?

Like, we're basically all a WoW community but just thoroughly muzzled in comparison?

This is an apt example, so much yes.