Parsers add replayability for casual players

[ZedxKayn]

Not really. Time and time again, I read arguments citing 'bad players' and frustration at [level 77 tanks] that (somehow?) make parsers ok?


Here's the thing. Using parsers, official or not, is entirely up to the player. You want to use a non-official parser (and are on a PC), good on you. Nothing stopping you from utilizing tools at your disposal to do so.

You're on a PS4/PS5 you say? I've heard of this great set of internet resources that does all sorts of 'best rotations' work. Why not start with that?


You want to force a company that has already declined to incorporate an official parser in game? Your arguments had better be spot on and to-the-point, not the mish-mash of complaints and anecdotes I've been reading.

How, exactly, would having an in-game parser benefit those who you would label as a 'bad player' if they don't use it? I've never played Lords of Vermillion. It's in-game, and I don't use it. There are plenty of features in-game that players ignore. Why would this be different?

Unless, of course, you attempt to shame your so-called 'bad players'. And we all know that's the primary reason you won't get a parser.

You cannot demand a player use a parser to 'git gud' ... it's against the ToS.

You want to present a solid argument for in-game parser? Don't use a thread title like "Parsers add replayability for casual players', because that argument is patent nonsense. Don't use complaints about bad players. Don't use anecdotes involving leveling players. Lay out, in detail, who could benefit, who would not. And, for the sake of all, do not use the 'git gud' argument, or disparage a player you've run across who could definitely benefit from the use of said parser.

I don't expect to see a cogent thread title with polite people trying to make a solid argument rather than the tactics used so far for the simple reason that proponents can't keep themselves from arguing by anecdote and disparagement. The moment the term 'bad player' is written at the keyboard, the argument will be lost.

Thanks for pretty much admitting you either didn't take the time to read the arguments or chose to only acknowledge those you can pick on, lol

[ForteNightshade]

I respectfully disagree. I've had too many instances where I was the ignored third vote of no when two others ganged up on someone else. And were sometimes nasty and negative in chat after they gave them the boot. And I had no choice in those cases but to take a 30 minute penalty for no reason because that's the only way the game allows me to be an active participant in the choice.

Once someone is kicked or leaves, you can also leave yourself without incurring a penalty provided no one else joins. So you have an alternative in this scenario.

There's this show on really late on Game Show Network called Divided. There are four people who answer questions and then they vote one off. Everyone gets a vote. And if it's split, you have to convince others around to your side. That's what they need to do. If they really want someone gone, then convince me.

In the case you're talking about, the dps stopped attacking and seems like (unless like in that case where the kickee was also with a friend) it would be a pretty solid consensus to boot them. Things just aren't balanced the way they are right now when four people participate but the input of only two matters.

This is a poor example. In this specific example, the contestants lose money the longer it takes to come to a consensus. So they have incentive to agree. Most game shows operate this way. There is so such incentive in FFXIV since the other thing lost is time.

... you didn't read the scenario I described as I outlined exactly that: both DPS were friends, thus you wouldn't be able to convince them. With your proposed change, the tank and healer have literally no recourse but to eat a penalty themselves or deal with someone who's refusing to attack unless the dungeon is done his specific way. I can assure you, there would be numerous cases of people AFKing and purposely DCing when an attempted kick didn't go through because someone's friend said "nope."

So you'd rather have that abuse in the hands of the kickers as opposed to the kickees? Noted. Because that's how it is now. Bring a friend and you can kick whoever you want, justified or not. At least in what we're talking about here, 4 man content. I consider that just the same kind of abuse.

In a word, yes. Because it's the lesser of two evils. Both versions can be abused except only one causes further problems by forcing people to take 30 minute penalties.

[SturmChurro]

If that ever happened to any significant degree, then likely SE would nerf the "problematic" dungeon. But considering I don't see anything like that happening recently, that kind of problem is likely a rare occurrence in the overall player experience. And even within those rare occurrences, actual "griefers" would be even rarer. So anti parser is not the same thing as defending griefer.

Isn't that what they have been doing though? "Very easy" mode, trusts, streamlined dungeons, etc.. The content in this game is already too hard for the playerbase at large!

[Awha]

Numbers without a reference point are useless.

[linayar]

Isn't that what they have been doing though? "Very easy" mode, trusts, streamlined dungeons, etc.. The content in this game is already too hard for the playerbase at large!

Exactly, hence a 70-minute dungeon isn't a significant problem in this game or you'll know about it when they nerf dungeon runs further. So far, most of the decreased difficulty comes with overgearing and overleveling (or new job balances), but nerfs can and do happen from time to time.

[Imora]

A lot. Who could have known tank stance was a toggle!

Gonna throw out there I usually forgot to put it on because syncing drops it for whatever reason and it's annoying as hell.

Btw, if y'all think parsers are the reason wows community is tripe... You're mistaken.

[linayar]

Btw, if y'all think parsers are the reason wows community is tripe... You're mistaken.

How a community behaves is usually not down to only one factor. That would just be oversimplifying people and large communities too much.

[Katie_Kitty]

Not really. Time and time again, I read arguments citing 'bad players' and frustration at [level 77 tanks] that (somehow?) make parsers ok?
.

Well, no, frustration doesn't make parsers okay. Parsers are okay by default, there is literally nothing wrong with them. Even the people who oppose them admit there's nothing wrong with them. The issue is player behavior, not parsing.

[Lanadra]

Well, no, frustration doesn't make parsers okay. Parsers are okay by default, there is literally nothing wrong with them. Even the people who oppose them admit there's nothing wrong with them. The issue is player behavior, not parsing.

Going to have to agree here. I may not want to deal with the tool myself even if they add it, but I don't think the tool itself is the problem. The people, as with most things, are.

[Puremallace]

There seem to be some people that are under this delusion that if casual players could see their dps it would make them better. Under this theory I should be able to login into WoW or any MMO that allows dps meters and be playing dungeons/raids with all orange parsing gamer gods.

What MMO have you people played where having a dps meter made casual players magically better?