Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Wavaryen]

There's a daily post limit?

Yup. for someone like me who loves to talk and give my worthless two cents on a range of subjects. I hit it often.

[Rinhi]

I mean it is on them, but if they are having fun and don't care. Who are we to tell them to stop doing that. Like I said, both sides clash on this issue. As long as it is not breaking the rules of the game. Not much players can do about it. And the developers has protected these types of players saying we can't tell them otherwise.

that's... exactly what I, or rather, some of us, are saying? that the developers are protecting and pandering to those kind of players instead of trying to find a good average
take bozja's DR for example, the average run is like, 35 to 50 minutes? sometimes even longer
with the majority being halfway competent and using the essences like you're supposed to, it can be done in 25 or less and save a ton of time and the same is true for dungeons:
it's not 'just' 5 minutes extra like the people earlier in the thread said, it's usually 15-30+ minutes or more if people even decide to stick around, just look at the tales of DF thread
playing bad on purpose or playing bad/VERY very sub-optimally because it is 'more fun' is simply griefing, sorry

[TaleraRistain]

What I am saying, and have been saying for pages upon pages is to stop situations such as that from happening SE needs to put in more roadblocks that make a player look at and interact with their skills. Also that player, if they have no understanding of dots, is a negative gain to whatever party they get paired with.

Why in the world would they limit their playerbase like that? The only time the game design expects grouping is random times during the MSQ. And now they have Trusts so someone could just muddle through on their own. They're going to make this game more accessible, not less. Doing otherwise would be an incredibly stupid business decision.

[Wavaryen]

that's... exactly what I, or rather, some of us, are saying? that the developers are protecting and pandering to those kind of players instead of trying to find a good average
take bozja's DR for example, the average run is like, 35 to 50 minutes? sometimes even longer
with the majority being halfway competent and using the essences like you're supposed to, it can be done in 25 or less and save a ton of time and the same is true for dungeons:
it's not 'just' 5 minutes extra like the people earlier in the thread said, it's usually 15-30+ minutes or more if people even decide to stick around, just look at the tales of DF thread
playing bad on purpose or playing bad/VERY very sub-optimally because it is 'more fun' is simply griefing, sorry

and they and developers don't see it as that way. So no matter what stance we take on it. As long as developers and players feel this way. We must adjust and adapt to it. That is the nature of the beast.


I mean I get where both sides are coming from, but we must accept that as long as developers protect and make the rules around these players. That means this is that sort of game. We can voice displeasure like many have, but right now until it changes. The only thing you can do is meet a middle ground with these types of players.

[TaleraRistain]

take bozja's DR for example, the average run is like, 35 to 50 minutes? sometimes even longer
with the majority being halfway competent and using the essences like you're supposed to, it can be done in 25 or less and save a ton of time and the same is true for dungeons:

I'm not sure that's the best example because there are many people who are only there because SE put relics behind it and wouldn't be otherwise.

[Caurcas]

and they and developers don't see it as that way. So no matter what stance we take on it. As long as developers and players feel this way. We must adjust and adapt to it. That is the nature of the beast.


I mean I get where both sides are coming from, but we must accept that as long as developers protect and make the rules around these players. That means this is that sort of game. We can voice displeasure like many have, but right now until it changes. The only thing you can do is meet a middle ground with these types of players.

I don't think it is necessarily to "protect" those players as much as SE doesn't have a solid grasp on the player base outside of JP. As looking at the data, JP engages more broadly with content under the same ToS. So SE takes this as working, but they neglect how this has wrecked and split the NA and EU communities into essentially two warring tribes.

[Rinhi]

I'm not sure that's the best example because there are many people who are only there because SE put relics behind it and wouldn't be otherwise.

how does that invalidate my point or make it a bad example? I'm only doing DR to get the relic too, but I want it to be over quickly as possible so I use the essences the game throws at you in Bozja
that's like, the very least that should be expected from someone doing DR and only doing it for the relic, imo

[Kolsykol]

and they and developers don't see it as that way. So no matter what stance we take on it. As long as developers and players feel this way. We must adjust and adapt to it. That is the nature of the beast.


I mean I get where both sides are coming from, but we must accept that as long as developers protect and make the rules around these players. That means this is that sort of game. We can voice displeasure like many have, but right now until it changes. The only thing you can do is meet a middle ground with these types of players.

I think that most players do feel very negatively towards players who make no effort or play badly on purpose.
Like if you play a BLM who just spams ice spells because you '' want to be a frost mage '' it won't go over well and people won't want to play with you.

Not having your essence in DR isn't quite as bad but I do see people being all like *sigh* about it.
And people are also entitled to kick you, as far as I understand the line is simply drawn at basically harassment.
But people can still kick you for not playing like the group wants no one is forced to play with them.

[Dzian]

I'm not sure that's the best example because there are many people who are only there because SE put relics behind it and wouldn't be otherwise.

Honestly the same can be said for basically all content in the game.. even on the simplest level. If you took tombstones away from the roulettes no one would ever do them.. so its safe to say players are only doing them because tomes are put behind them..

Can you imagine the queue times newer players would face if they took the tomes away

Thing is players really don't expect that much. Noone will ever sigh or frown upon you if you queue into your dungeon roulette and don't pop food or pots on boss fights or anything extreme like that. But having a basic understanding of your job really isn't a big ask..

DR is a bit different because the lost actions and essences make a substantial difference and can literally cut the time the duty takes in half And there's literally no reason not to use any. Using them only makes it easier less mechanics to deal with, less chance of getting doomed and killed, less mettle lost... there's literally no reason at all to not use any essences.

[TaleraRistain]

how does that invalidate my point or make it a bad example? I'm only doing DR to get the relic too, but I want it to be over quickly as possible so I use the essences the game throws at you in Bozja
that's like, the very least that should be expected from someone doing DR and only doing it for the relic, imo

But wouldn't they only have those if they engaged with Bozja enough to get out and farm the ones needed? If someone isn't interested in doing that, and is only doing DR because their relic is locked behind it, then they may not know/have those essences because they don't want to engage with a piece of optional content to that level.