Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Seera1024]

You learn your job and rotation prior to doing content so you are learning the content and not your job. If you know your job going into content if on a very basic and non-optimal manner you are going to be able to learn the content more efficiently. It's all a very simple thing, but a thing the majority of the player base doesn't do.

And again, people learn differently.

I do not learn how to play my class outside of content. I only learn while actually in the content.

I can practice a rotation until the cows come home on a dummy and it will barely affect how it plays in the content. Because the boss does things the dummy does not. Such as move, place AoE's etc. Because there are 3+ people that are at various skill levels that may affect my ability to DPS.

For me, the real learning begins when I start doing the actual content.

Please stop telling me that how I learn, when you are not me. I have spent several years figuring out how I learn. Thank you.

[Awha]

It is the definition of "Selfish". Something many consider an undesirable trait.
Ultimately it's up to you what you value or what morals you hold, but many people will look down upon someone who always considers themselves first in every situation.

Aye, yeah I do not see being selfish as inherently wrong or undesirable. In the end if you do not care for your own self who will in the end? Can really only count on yourself when it comes to helping yourself or doing what it takes to enjoy your own life.

I guess if the view comes from a moral point of view I can get it. Though it does make me wonder if people really extend a helping hand to people or do they preach some things over the convince of the internet and a video game as a means of making one self feel better about their position.

I guess from a moral pov it seems like moral grand standing then anything else.

[Awha]

Even better, that brags how they take someone else so they can make sure the kick goes through. Two more people and they could have a premade and not have to deal with the "undesirables"

Do not recall bragging about anything. You are right though more often then not I do queue with full groups to avoid playing with others though sometimes the time of day does not permit full groups. So yeah I will vote kick people out.

I just fail to see how what I am doing is wrong outside of some baseline emotional plea or understanding of empathy towards others.

I get people may disagree with my stance and I am cool with that. Though I still ak extremely confused as to why what I am doing is seen as inherently wrong, and to a degree I suspect immoral to some since I show utter lack of caring towards other people.

[TaleraRistain]

Do not recall bragging about anything. You are right though more often then not I do queue with full groups to avoid playing with others though sometimes the time of day does not permit full groups. So yeah I will vote kick people out.

I just fail to see how what I am doing is wrong outside of some baseline emotional plea or understanding of empathy towards others.

I get people may disagree with my stance and I am cool with that. Though I still ak extremely confused as to why what I am doing is seen as inherently wrong, and to a degree I suspect immoral to some since I show utter lack of caring towards other people.

"In the end if the vote passes then clearly the group thought they were deserving, especially when you stack the vote in your favor by bringing a friend along. :P"

Don't consider that bragging?

Of course the truly wild thing is before that you talked about how you'll work to kill a friend even if it causes a wipe.

Your outlook here has definitely come off really selfish, out for yourself and your own enjoyment, and screw anyone else in the game. It's not about an emotional plea but just being a decent party mate to those who get stuck with you.

[Awha]

"In the end if the vote passes then clearly the group thought they were deserving, especially when you stack the vote in your favor by bringing a friend along. :P"

Don't consider that bragging?

Of course the truly wild thing is before that you talked about how you'll work to kill a friend even if it causes a wipe.

Your outlook here has definitely come off really selfish, out for yourself and your own enjoyment, and screw anyone else in the game. It's not about an emotional plea but just being a decent party mate to those who get stuck with you.

I mean if the vote passes then yeah even if I queue with a friend that is the will of the group following SE rules for vote removal. The majority of those able to vote determine the outcome of the person getting voted. That is kind of a fact if the system in place.

You can dislike the system and a change regarding how premade votes should count is a valid concern but not sure how what I said is bragging. This seems more like one of those cases where people tell me just because I can do something does not mean I should. Which often stems from an emotional plea based around their own moral system.

That is the thing I know I am selfish my question is how is that inherently wrong? It appears you view it as wrong under your own standard based around your own emotional bias regarding being a decent party mate. I for one do not care about strangers as stated for the most part I view most strangers in the game as nothing more then advice trusts.

I am okay with being called selfish just like in IRL I am just confused because people make it seem like it is a bad thing to care more so about yourself and your own enjoyment over others.

Guess overall people are throwing around the word selfish like it should bother me, it more so confuses me since I do not see being selfish as an inherent bad thing.

[Krotoan]

Do not recall bragging about anything. You are right though more often then not I do queue with full groups to avoid playing with others though sometimes the time of day does not permit full groups. So yeah I will vote kick people out.

I just fail to see how what I am doing is wrong outside of some baseline emotional plea or understanding of empathy towards others.

I get people may disagree with my stance and I am cool with that. Though I still ak extremely confused as to why what I am doing is seen as inherently wrong, and to a degree I suspect immoral to some since I show utter lack of caring towards other people.

Please look up Sociopath.

This is not a name calling thing. This is not accusatory. You actually sound like a sociopath.

You seem to perfectly understand that others hold different values, maybe the missing piece for you here is that your position is not typical. In general people are expected to care what happens to others and at least not cause suffering for their own benefit.

[Penthea]

I do not learn how to play my class outside of content. I only learn while actually in the content.

I can practice a rotation until the cows come home on a dummy and it will barely affect how it plays in the content. Because the boss does things the dummy does not. Such as move, place AoE's etc. Because there are 3+ people that are at various skill levels that may affect my ability to DPS.

For me, the real learning begins when I start doing the actual content.

Never mind the fact that healing can only be learned by doing content. Smashing a dummy teaches NOTHING about healing. Reading a guide isn't enough because healing doesn't have rotations. You can't follow a pattern of healing buttons that someone else recommends and then be guaranteed a path of success. In combat you are presented with a situation and you react to it, and what you need to do can wildly vary not just because of the content but also because of the players you're with. A guide also can't teach you how to make snap decisions, which is essential for healing, only combat experience can teach you that.

That isn't to say healing guides are useless but compared to dps guides they have very limited use. They can teach some great theory but that theory is useless if you lack the experience to be able to constantly make and weigh decisions about every single thing you do without standing around like a deer in the headlights. A healer who has read loads of guides and has little to no combat experience would perform far worse than a healer who read no guides and has only used combat experience to learn.

This idea that duties aren't for learning is ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous. I agree that max lvl duty content isn't for learning the basics of your role, but it is still there for learning how to play. How else are people supposed to learn how to play their class effectively at max lvl in a hectic environment? Guides cannot teach that. At best they can recommend suggestions but no list like that can prepare a person for everything. Only combat experience can. Even ex and savage exists for learning to a degree. It's not a coincidence that seasoned raiders are usually far better than novices. It's also why earlier bosses in the tier are easier than the later bosses. I think ultimate is the only content in which anyone can claim is absolutely not for learning because it demands consistent peak performance from the entire team.

And like I said, a well researched and put together guide is likely going to overwhelm me. And people don't learn good when they are overwhelmed.

I have had this exact experience. I tried to look up guides first before playing much of a class/spec back in WoW and every time I did I couldn't retain the information at all because I had no point of reference for most of it. What good is it to me if the guide recommends that I use abilities that I don't even have yet? How am I supposed to understand why a guide is telling me "if situation X happens do Y" when I don't even know what being in situation X feels like? I didn't remember a lot of what I read because I lacked context that I can only gain in combat. Without that it made the information difficult to remember.

Not everyone processes information in the same way, and with time I found that going to guides for my first step in learning is terrible for a player like me. I have always gotten the best results from learning how to play in content. Now what I do is I learn the class in content and when I feel I understand it THEN I look up a guide to see if I have missed anything.

Some of us have to actually go into dungeons to learn - us hands on learners. Some players likely need someone giving them instructions over voice chat because they are auditory learners. Some, like you apparently, are visual learners and learn primarily by reading.

I don't think OP cares, they basically said other players need to study as if they're in school to be worthy of the experience of playing with them.

[Caurcas]

With healing, outside of Savage, can be purely reactionary. Even in savage it's only take once (we'll use WHM for example) to decide if you need to use Medica 2 or can get away with Asylum, or if you need to eat the GCD hit an use a lily. These are not some long, arduous things to learn. They are simple and straightforward.

[Penthea]

With healing, outside of Savage, can be purely reactionary. Even in savage it's only take once (we'll use WHM for example) to decide if you need to use Medica 2 or can get away with Asylum, or if you need to eat the GCD hit an use a lily. These are not some long, arduous things to learn. They are simple and straightforward.

Once? Not all savage fights only follow one pattern. Some fights go on different paths depending on what the boss does at certain points in the fight. I remember o7s being like this. Also when you're doing progress people make mistakes or die and you encounter parts of the fight you have not experienced yet so you still have to be able to make snap decisions to perform adequately whether that's from mopping up mistakes, or figuring out on the spot how to handle a situation because something you would normally use is on cd. You may even find you have to rethink what you do earlier in the fight based on what you end up finding out you'll need later. Learning how to heal a savage encounter is not a one and done. One pull is not enough. It's not a dungeon.

[Caurcas]

Once? Not all savage fights only follow one pattern. Some fights go on different paths depending on what the boss does at certain points in the fight. I remember o7s being like this. Also when you're doing progress people make mistakes or die and you encounter parts of the fight you have not experienced yet so you still have to be able to make snap decisions to perform adequately whether that's from mopping up mistakes, or figuring out on the spot how to handle a situation because something you would normally use is on cd. You may even find you have to rethink what you do earlier in the fight based on what you end up finding out you'll need later. Learning how to heal a savage encounter is not a one and done. One pull is not enough. It's not a dungeon.

You are making it to be way harder than what it is. Considering, atleast with WHM as it's the healer is did Eden Gate Savage on, you really only use 3 of your AoE healing abilities, 4 if you have to use Cure 3 for some reason. Medica 2 is going to do most of your heavy lifting, Asylum is better as you don't lose a gcd. However, it's a bit more limited due to CD. You use a lily or a buffed lily if you need spot healing fast. Assize is used as a pure damage cd. It's all very simple and doesn't take alot to learn. What you are talking about is learning content, not a job. Also alot of the issue you are talking about happen in prog, as you shouldn't be running in recovery scenarios in clear runs.