Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Krotoan]

understand why you feel putting ones own personal enjoyment ahead of another is weird or wrong. Since that is all I am doing when I remove someone from a group.

It is the definition of "Selfish". Something many consider an undesirable trait.
Ultimately it's up to you what you value or what morals you hold, but many people will look down upon someone who always considers themselves first in every situation.

[Awha]

It is the definition of "Selfish". Something many consider an undesirable trait.
Ultimately it's up to you what you value or what morals you hold, but many people will look down upon someone who always considers themselves first in every situation.

Aye, yeah I do not see being selfish as inherently wrong or undesirable. In the end if you do not care for your own self who will in the end? Can really only count on yourself when it comes to helping yourself or doing what it takes to enjoy your own life.

I guess if the view comes from a moral point of view I can get it. Though it does make me wonder if people really extend a helping hand to people or do they preach some things over the convince of the internet and a video game as a means of making one self feel better about their position.

I guess from a moral pov it seems like moral grand standing then anything else.

[Dzian]

It is the definition of "Selfish". Something many consider an undesirable trait.
Ultimately it's up to you what you value or what morals you hold, but many people will look down upon someone who always considers themselves first in every situation.

The problem with this is that many of those "casuals" are the most selfish people in the game. With their I don't care how my performance is ruining everyone elses fun so I dont need to learn my job attitudes aloing with their super insane levels of entitlement absolutely crushing the signinficance and value of in game stuff for everyone else for no reason other than "because I want it"

This is quite literally the most selfish thing in the game.. Absolutely no one prevents them from getting something the same way everyone else does but their own laziness and entitlement is pure selfishness.

Why shoulld I make an effort I cant be arsed. Who cares if iIm dragging 3, 7, 23 other people down.....

And then they're the ones who say the "good" players are the selfish "elitist" ones..

[MyakotApelsia]

...and then they're the ones who say the good players are the selfish ones..

I was kinda always amused at that ngl. Its like they think that as long as they are benefitting from that, its not selfish.

[Krotoan]

The problem with this is that many of those "casuals" are the most selfish people in the game. With their I don't care how my performance is ruining everyone elses fun so I dont need to learn my job attitudes aloing with their super insane levels of entitlement absolutely crushing the signinficance and value of in game stuff for everyone else for no reason other than "because I want it"

This is quite literally the most selfish thing in the game.. Absolutely no one prevents them from getting something the same way everyone else does but their own laziness and entitlement is pure selfishness.

Why shoulld I make an effort I cant be arsed. Who cares if iIm dragging 3, 7, 23 other people down.....

And then they're the ones who say the "good" players are the selfish "elitist" ones..

I was replying to someone who wondered why people looked down on them being incredibly selfish who didn't seem to notice their take WAS selfish. I've already said my peace on what OP can do about his problem.

[Awha]

I was replying to someone who wondered why people looked down on them being incredibly selfish who didn't seem to notice their take WAS selfish. I've already said my peace on what OP can do about his problem.

Oh I did notice my take was selfish more so I never understood why people view selfishness as an inherently undesirable trait.

In the end I probably could have phrased it better, and I need to understand that my stances differ greatly from what would be considered normal.

Though yes I do diverge from what many would be consider normal social etiquette or norms.

[Nethereal]

I was replying to someone who wondered why people looked down on them being incredibly selfish who didn't seem to notice their take WAS selfish. I've already said my peace on what OP can do about his problem.

I can see where they're coming from.

Inherently no one's time is more valuable than your own because it is 'your time' however that means it makes sense to treat people the way you want to be treated in hopes to increase the chance of them respecting your time.
The opposite side of that is anyone disrespecting your time does not deserve your time, the reason is really irrelevant but I just thought I would put that thought process out there.

I been reading this awhile, and want to add my perspective on this very long back and forth.

This is going to be a ramble, so if you read it. Kudos.


A very long time ago, when I was much younger I played EQ, did some raiding and did not know much about min/maxing. After all..I was a ranger. Endless quiver/sow bot.

Got into wow, and my views of mmorpg changed. I was a raid leader, and a toxic one at that. If you want to do end game content, you should play your best or at least try your best. If you failed more than once on the same thing. You had to bring a repair bot for the people you failed. We geared you out, and that gear you used belongs to all of us. That was the guild pride. Many expansions later, I gained a disability, and I can no longer play as good as I once was. I am sure I could find people that would accept that, but it is a me problem. I can't accept it, and to this day struggle to accept it.

Now, I play a MMO with my wife...and she is the type of player that use to make me rage. She would look at a class, pick what skills she liked and did not like and use the ones she only liked.
When I told her that is not good dps. She would be like so? I'm like, don't you want to improve? She said sure I do, in the way that is fun to me.

Watching her fail and laugh, smile and have fun in games that I use to take serious. I understand that it was not her playing the game wrong. It was me.

My point of this story is, I'm glad this game protects her from people like me, Who would try and teach her or be upset and lash out at her for wasting my time. This game to get through the story content, it sometimes requires us to group. So i am glad that I can have some peace of mind knowing that if people try and ruin her way of thinking or fun. They can get in trouble. It is not anyone place.

This is very similar to RPing in public dungeons/areas/runs

It's nice that your wife is having fun and there are places for that mentality but she should also respect that her way of playing is unique and that it warrants annoyance from most people as she is disrespecting the time of anyone she plays with intentionally, this is fine in a controlled group of friends but with randoms it's not their responsibility to play along. Other than that have fun the way you want to have fun.

[Seera1024]

I can see where they're coming from.

Inherently no one's time is more valuable than your own because it is 'your time' however that means it makes sense to treat people the way you want to be treated in hopes to increase the chance of them respecting your time.
The opposite side of that is anyone disrespecting your time does not deserve your time, the reason is really irrelevant but I just thought I would put that thought process out there.



This is very similar to RPing in public dungeons/areas/runs

It's nice that your wife is having fun and there are places for that mentality but she should also respect that her way of playing is unique and that it warrants annoyance from most people as she is disrespecting the time of anyone she plays with intentionally, this is fine in a controlled group of friends but with randoms it's not their responsibility to play along. Other than that have fun the way you want to have fun.

I'd say as long as her way of playing is not causing wipes or anything like that, that she's fine to play how she wants. I'd imagine that any content that's required for the MSQ is probably forgiving enough for most play styles.

[ReynTime]

I'd say as long as her way of playing is not causing wipes or anything like that, that she's fine to play how she wants. I'd imagine that any content that's required for the MSQ is probably forgiving enough for most play styles.

Half the time there is no wipe because 2 or 3 of the 4 are playing their jobs right, not because "it's MSQ so you can play however".

[Seera1024]

Half the time there is no wipe because 2 or 3 of the 4 are playing their jobs right, not because "it's MSQ so you can play however".

Which is why I said that she could play as she likes in MSQ content because it is forgiving of most things if other players are playing closer to the meta.