MSQ

[DPZ2]

It's not a valid response, no. If you think it is, I understand you're not worth talking to about this subject. Or, probably, any subject regarding improvements and critique about the title in question.

Critique? Improvement? For whom?

I understand you won't reply to this, nor probably read this, since you have deemed me unworthy for contradicting your specious assertions.

[ZedxKayn]

Critique? Improvement? For whom?

I understand you won't reply to this, nor probably read this, since you have deemed me unworthy for contradicting your specious assertions.

The critique is that it's a bad design for a MMORPG that hurts player retention a whole lot and making it optional would improve the new player experience tremendously.
Now let's see the mental gymnastics to say that "no, it's actually good".

[linayar]

This is a pretty terrible non-response.

"Play another game" isn't a response to a critique of the current title, when it can easily offer the solution to players who might be interested in a different aspect of the title since the game isn't just a visual novel. Thanks for trying, I guess.

It's my response to this specific proposed change because it can affect the game I currently like in ways that I won't like.

It's a valid response to certain critiques depending on how major of a change it could be to the game.

You're welcome.

The critique is that it's a bad design for a MMORPG that hurts player retention a whole lot and making it optional would improve the new player experience tremendously.
Now let's see the mental gymnastics to say that "no, it's actually good".

Considering lack of endgame is already a known "problem" for player retention, there is no mental gymnastic needed to see this is not a change the game needs.

Yes, skip all the MSQ to keep player retention and get them to the endgame which they will finish earlier so they can also unsub. Hurray for player retention mechanic of optional MSQ.

Fact is, as has been said, players who don't care about the MSQ are already playing the game by speeding through the MSQ. So this change is not needed.

[ZedxKayn]

It's my response to this specific proposed change because it can affect the game I currently like in ways that I won't like.

It's a valid response to certain critiques depending on how major of a change it could be to the game.

You're welcome.

Your fears are absolutely worst case scenarios, good writers won't suddenly become bad writers because a subset of player will not be required to speed through the MSQ anymore.

Considering lack of endgame is already a known "problem" for player retention, there is no mental gymnastic needed to see this is not a change the game needs.

Yes, skip all the MSQ to keep player retention and get them to the endgame which they will finish earlier so they can also unsub. Hurray for player retention mechanic of optional MSQ.

Fact is, as has been said, players who don't care about the MSQ are already playing the game by speeding through the MSQ. So this change is not needed.

Source needed.

Bet you people who say the MSQ is fine as is and SE won't change anything also said that before the ARR changes were announced.

Trimming a measly 13% of ARR's fat changes basically nothing.

[Alaray]

It's my response to this specific proposed change because it can affect the game I currently like in ways that I won't like.

It's a valid response to certain critiques depending on how major of a change it could be to the game.

It literally doesn't affect you. Like, at all. Zero.

[linayar]

Your fears are absolutely worst case scenarios, good writers won't suddenly become bad writers because a subset of player will not be required to speed through the MSQ anymore.

Good writers can be hampered by company needs. I can only argue based on my MMO experience and, surprise surprise, the MMO story that I enjoy the most is mandatory.

Source needed.

People complaining about lack of endgame now. I'm sure you can find them yourself.

Bet you people who say the MSQ is fine as is and SE won't change anything also said that before the ARR changes were announced.

Trimming a measly 13% of ARR's fat changes basically nothing.

Well, I'm fine with trimming and stuff. Whether it's needed is up to them.

It literally doesn't affect you. Like, at all. Zero.

It could affect me in the future if MSQ is now considered optional content. MMORPG is a long-term investment. I'm not going to agree just because it doesn't affect me now.

[ZedxKayn]

People complaining about lack of endgame now. I'm sure you can find them yourself.

If you can see complaints in spaces dedicated to FFXIV, they're most likely still playing or come back regularly for raiding.
There is still a lot more time to be spent doing endgame content that MSQ content. Prog and reclears take time.
And MSQ being optional wouldn't remove it from the game, it would change literally nothing aside not forcing people who don't want to read a point and click visual novel to do so.
As Alaray said, the MSQ offers no fun gameplay, as someone who spent over 8k hours on the game since mid-5.0 without giving a damn about the MSQ, there is still plenty of enjoyable things to do that could keep MMO enthusiasts who enjoy crafting, or housing, or raiding, or glamour, or leveling, or achievement hunting, or in general just doing stuff with their friends, roped in.

The only reason you don't hear people complain about FFXIV's MSQ much is because most people who are unhappy with it got filtered and don't frequent XIV communities, but it's a recurrent criticism in communities centered around MMORPGs as a genre.

[linayar]

If you can see complaints in spaces dedicated to FFXIV, they're most likely still playing or come back regularly for raiding.
There is still a lot more time to be spent doing endgame content that MSQ content. Prog and reclears take time.
And MSQ being optional wouldn't remove it from the game, it would change literally nothing aside not forcing people who don't want to read a point and click visual novel to do so.
As Alaray said, the MSQ offers no fun gameplay, as someone who spent over 8k hours on the game since mid-5.0 without giving a damn about the MSQ, there is still plenty of enjoyable things to do that could keep MMO enthusiasts who enjoy crafting, or housing, or raiding, or glamour, or leveling, or achievement hunting, or in general just doing stuff with their friends, roped in.

The only reason you don't hear people complain about FFXIV's MSQ much is because most people who are unhappy with it got filtered and don't frequent XIV communities, but it's a recurrent criticism in communities centered around MMORPGs as a genre.

I'm not saying it would be removed from the game, but the focus will certainly change for something that now is not the main content. That's inevitable. And the story itself will change because you don't need it to unlock content. Again, it's not a risk I'm willing to take. It's probably the one change I will never agree to other than removing queueable content.

I'm not saying there are no complainers. I'm saying if they are still choosing to play despite that, then it is what it is. If they speed through the MSQ then spend the rest of their time progging, then there is no reason to make it optional. Just let them speed through it once. That said, only the devs can decide if their complaint holds merit in terms of affecting the business. I'm arguing simply as a player.

[Alaray]

It could affect me in the future if MSQ is now considered optional content. MMORPG is a long-term investment. I'm not going to agree just because it doesn't affect me now.

It's already optional. Me skipping it has no bearing on your enjoyment, and someone purchasing a skip has no bearing on your enjoyment. The position of "but it might change the story" doesn't hold water to me, since the story changes every patch and every expansion and every time a new Main Scenario writer comes along. It'll change, anyway. That, and MSQ content is the primary driving foundation for how the team develops content in XIV, which puts it in, likely, the safest spot relative to the rest of the content involved in the game. But if we're talking about content quality going forward, that requires SE proper to actually care about this game and not just Creative Unit 3. Since I do, sincerely, believe the development team want to do the best they can by the playerbase.

And while MSQ is as integral to the game's identity as it is, again, my point is: It's not the only reason why players pick up the game, and it's asinine for new players to be told that -- before they are allowed to experience the MMO part of this RPG -- they have to slog through 80+ hours of single player story content, that offers 0 value to that player, just because. This game is not in the visual novel genre. It is an MMORPG, people tend to expect to be allowed to play with their friends through the content of the game, which the MSQ actively negates. Those who want to do MSQ still can. Those who take, for example, an optional free Story Skim or Story Skip still have access to New Game+ if they decide they want to go back to see it. Functionally, one does not impact the other.

I understand forcing that commitment translates into subscription time for the period of actually doing it, and translates into story skips and job boost purchases, though; I still find it weird that this playerbase will point to those as if being taken advantage of by a company that created a problem that mountainous in the first place is the Good result instead of asking for that company to do better.

That all, and, eventually the story (if it hasn't already) will become a massive roadblock to more players who might be interested in the game due to seeing the Ultimate or Savage content. Or the Gathering and Crafting content. Or who saw the housing content, or who were excited to do things like treasure maps and hunts and so on. Which means, less new players. And while Shadowbringers did have a boom, I still feel like that surge would've been larger without all the arbitrary gates that cost an extra fee to get past if you have no interest in running amok in the ARR story line for 50+ levels spamming whatever terrible frankensteined Job Kit SE decided to give you. (And, additionally speaking -- if you were interested in, say, Astrologian you need to get to level 50+ just to get to level 30).

And, for current players, having the option to Skip the MSQ on an Alt should just be baseline.

[linayar]

It's already optional. Me skipping it has no bearing on your enjoyment, and someone purchasing a skip has no bearing on your enjoyment.

It's not optional. You didn't buy a mere skip. You bought an auto-complete. You not caring about the story, skipping/speeding through it, is not my concern.