MSQ

[Iscah]

I think you missed the fact my ONLY complaint is that these quests are labelled "MSQ" and so are required.

That is what they're addressing - your opinion that they somehow shouldn't be MSQ just because they're patch quests, even though they form part of the story just as much as the leveling portion of the MSQ.

[Tommara]

That is what they're addressing - your opinion that they somehow shouldn't be MSQ just because they're patch quests, even though they form part of the story just as much as the leveling portion of the MSQ.

Nah, my opinion is based on the fact that I've done those quests, can't tell the difference from most of them and other side quests, and have lost a few friends who found them boring (not challenging, just boring), and the fact that you can now pay to skip them. Why is that? If those 80 quests (or so, maybe just 78?) are so important.

Edited Note: Not meaning to pick on ARR, you can pay to skip all of them.

[Iscah]

Nah, my opinion is based on the fact that I've done those quests, can't tell the difference from most of them and other side quests, and have lost a few friends who found them boring (not challenging, just boring), and the fact that you can now pay to skip them. Why is that? If those 80 quests (or so, maybe just 78?) are so important.

Then your point is against "main quests that feel like sidequests, not post-credits MSQ. You get plenty of that pre-credits too.

And the specific number of quests gets overblown anyway. A single actual mission can span several quests from start to finish.

[Tommara]

Then your point is against "main quests that feel like sidequests, not post-credits MSQ. You get plenty of that pre-credits too.

And the specific number of quests gets overblown anyway. A single actual mission can span several quests from start to finish.

To be honest, I don't understand your meaning about post/pre credits MSQ.

My point is simply that the ARR MSQ has about 80 quests, most of which are really boring, which has caused me to quit several times. But I keep coming back because I'm a fan of Final Fantasy games, because of my love for their stories, beginning in 1990's. But those were single player games.

Most of my online friends are from the Everquest era, which taught them well to avoid time wasters.

So they know time wasters when they see them, but lacking history with Final Fantasy games, aren't as willing to stick them out as would a long time FF fan.

Edited Note: ala "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" It doesn't matter that the game devs are different, because they pretty much copy each other, as a long time gamer knows.

What a long time PC gamer doesn't know is that Final Fantasy games generally have a really interesting story, but that's not really apparent in ARR. At least, the story is not worth the time it takes to complete 80 level 50 MSQ's.

The story does get better after ARR. But you have get past ARR first.

[ZedxKayn]

The main issue with the MSQ isn't that it's boring since it's subjective (though I do agree), it's that it's not optional if you want to enjoy the game, and dreadfully lengthy.

[linayar]

The main issue with the MSQ isn't that it's boring since it's subjective (though I do agree), it's that it's not optional if you want to enjoy the game, and dreadfully lengthy.

If being boring is not a problem because that's subjective, being mandatory and lengthy is also not a problem since it's subjective whether or not you had fun doing the MSQ. I enjoyed the game from the start while doing the MSQ.

The devs acknowledged concerns about ARR and they didn't make the MSQ optional, but trimmed it. So the dev has made their position known on this. The MSQ is the game unless they change their mind. If you cannot enjoy the MSQ, you can pay to auto-complete up to a certain part, but the mandatory MSQ will still be there, only you'll be even less likely to enjoy it as you may not know about the story if you auto-complete through its earlier portion.

[ZedxKayn]

If being boring is not a problem because that's subjective, being mandatory and lengthy is also not a problem since it's subjective whether or not you had fun doing the MSQ. I enjoyed the game from the start while doing the MSQ.

The devs acknowledged concerns about ARR and they didn't make the MSQ optional, but trimmed it. So the dev has made their position known on this. The MSQ is the game unless they change their mind. If you cannot enjoy the MSQ, you can pay to auto-complete up to a certain part, but the mandatory MSQ will still be there, only you'll be even less likely to enjoy it as you may not know about the story if you auto-complete through its earlier portion.

What the devs think doesn't make what I say any less true.
Every fun thing being locked behind a lengthy and mandatory MSQ is hurting the new player retention a lot whether fans want to acknowledge it or not.

Also how people "feel" about the MSQ is subjective and personal, but it's long and most importantly mandatory, long in the video game standard but it's not subjective that the majority of the game is gated behind it. It's a theme park MMO ffs.

[Tommara]

What the devs think doesn't make what I say any less true.
Every fun thing being locked behind a lengthy and mandatory MSQ is hurting the new player retention a lot whether fans want to acknowledge it or not.

Also how people "feel" about the MSQ is subjective and personal, but it's long and most importantly mandatory, long in the video game standard but it's not subjective that the majority of the game is gated behind it. It's a theme park MMO ffs.

This.

You've said it much better than I did.

[SturmChurro]

What the devs think doesn't make what I say any less true.
Every fun thing being locked behind a lengthy and mandatory MSQ is hurting the new player retention a lot whether fans want to acknowledge it or not.

Also how people "feel" about the MSQ is subjective and personal, but it's long and most importantly mandatory, long in the video game standard but it's not subjective that the majority of the game is gated behind it. It's a theme park MMO ffs.

I brought up this point years ago, but this is going to be yet another expansion worth of story roadblocking potential players from endgame. Doesn't sound like this problem is going to be alleviated come EW. According to a recent interview, they are looking at EXP, rather than another solution, for now. Imagine come the expansion following EW there is still no 'fix'. People always fall back to "just use a story skip", but I don't think that really fixes the core problem, nor do I think even a free skip is a real solution.

[ReynTime]

I brought up this point years ago, but this is going to be yet another expansion worth of story roadblocking potential players from endgame. Doesn't sound like this problem is going to be alleviated come EW. According to a recent interview, they are looking at EXP, rather than another solution, for now. Imagine come the expansion following EW there is still no 'fix'. People always fall back to "just use a story skip", but I don't think that really fixes the core problem, nor do I think even a free skip is a real solution.

This is a terrible solution IMO.
We reached a point where it's common for completely beginners (I know because I watch beginners' streams on Twitch) to get to lv60+, without trying, before finishing 2.0's storyline. And that makes the non-synced content so trivial they just get bored of the fetch quests faster due nothing outside of the dungeons being engaging in the slightest.
The extra exp helps with alt jobs, but it doesn't help the fetch quest and cutscene bloat problem at all.