MSQ

[Rosenstrauch]

Uh yeah, that's my point to?? What I mean to say is that giving g'raha the Exarch's memory is already dubious enough, but he had to shove his own soul too. This resulted in current g'raha mostly being the Exarch, not our time line g'raha. And I personally dislike that.

Mostly? With the way he acts, it's more like he's an Ascian puppeteering his past self's body, so he can cheat death and live out his fantasy of being the player's best friend.

[SturmChurro]

Uh yeah, that's my point to?? What I mean to say is that giving g'raha the Exarch's memory is already dubious enough, but he had to shove his own soul too. This resulted in current g'raha mostly being the Exarch, not our time line g'raha. And I personally dislike that.

He may have entrust the First into crystarium people, but I'm talking more about his self. And no, current g'raha isn't "next generation" past g'raha. If he truly was, he should be free from the knowledge and personality of the Exarch to develop into his own person, since the new time line will have new future. Maybe this example isn't the best, but this situation is like if minfilia still tag along inside ryne despite already giving all her power, and changing ryne's personality due to that.

Yep. This is the selfish part of The Crystal Exarch's whole deal. In creating the extra soul crystal, he robbed his younger self of an existence free to live his own life. The game itself acknowledges that 'G'raha Tia' on the Source, and 'The Crystal Exarch' were separate people; or separate personalities.

The Crystal Exarch should have never had an out in the first place, as I said prior: it cheapens the sacrifice. He always thought he had an out, he was never truly 'sacrificing' himself for his people, and his friends. While yes, it wasn't a guarantee that his plan with the extra soul crystal would succeed, it's the intent.

[linayar]

Yep. This is the selfish part of The Crystal Exarch's whole deal. In creating the extra soul crystal, he robbed his younger self of an existence free to live his own life. The game itself acknowledges that 'G'raha Tia' on the Source, and 'The Crystal Exarch' were separate people; or separate personalities.

I disagree. I think the new G'raha is still free to live his own life. If he disagrees with what they've done, knowing what they've done, then he would have said so.

The Crystal Exarch should have never had an out in the first place, as I said prior: it cheapens the sacrifice. He always thought he had an out, he was never truly 'sacrificing' himself for his people, and his friends. While yes, it wasn't a guarantee that his plan with the extra soul crystal would succeed, it's the intent.

What cheapens a sacrifice is thinking of it as a sacrifice. People doing things that they have to even if it potentially will cost them something is the point, not whether or not the cost could be avoided. It's logical to want to lessen the cost of a sacrifice if they can, it doesn't change that they are willing to go through with it.

[BlitzAceRush]

There is one detail a lot of people are leaving out, they make it clear several times that the reason they fear the process won't work for the Exarch is that he needs to look at his younger self and accept and acknowledge that, that is in fact him. That also needs to work in reverse, young Graha needs to see the Exarch and accept and acknowledge that, that man is someone he is/can be/want to become.

While obviously they didn't have a verbal chat about it, their souls both had to want this, the Exarch had to want it more than simply "I don't want to die" He had to be willing to let go of the first and the 8th and accept he could be the man he was before.
Young Graha had to want to become the old and experienced man he saw before him, which was very in character for him, young Graha wanted nothing more than to be a Hero and for all the Exarch's modesty, he was one.

What likely also helped them combine was that their past's line up perfectly, the Exarch was just adding onto young Graha's life, not overwriting anything, you can argue that young Graha would have been a different person without this, which is true, but that's if/when he ever woke up the tower could have been destroyed with him in it 1000's of years from now, either way this is the continuation of young Graha's story, he just took a very long and winding path to get here, but he got here by choice.
To quote the man "Of course I had the choice to turn my back on the lot of it, but in the end it was no choice at all." It's all just his nature that got him here, not his WoL worship or his desire to be a hero, he just kept trying to do the right thing.

[Theodric]

Generally speaking, the antagonists in this game are much more interesting to me because there's actual stakes and consequences involved. If they put a plan into action, there's flaws to be exploited - whereas when the protagonists come up with some convoluted and needlessly contrived plan it somehow always works out in their favour even when it technically doesn't.

I think G'raha has overstayed his welcome and a lot of people only obsess over him because he strokes the ego of the player character. It's the same with Haurchefant, really - quite literally, in fact, since neither character appears to be well versed in the concept of tact or personal space.

I hope Zenos takes out G'raha in Endwalker. We're overdue a major character death and it'd be neat to see a fan favourite of prominence actually die rather than a secondary character temporarily elevated to a position of importance.

[Lauront]

Generally speaking, the antagonists in this game are much more interesting to me because there's actual stakes and consequences involved. If they put a plan into action, there's flaws to be exploited - whereas when the protagonists come up with some convoluted and needlessly contrived plan it somehow always works out in their favour even when it technically doesn't.

I think G'raha has overstayed his welcome and a lot of people only obsess over him because he strokes the ego of the player character. It's the same with Haurchefant, really - quite literally, in fact, since neither character appears to be well versed in the concept of tact or personal space.

I hope Zenos takes out G'raha in Endwalker. We're overdue a major character death and it'd be neat to see a fan favourite of prominence actually die rather than a secondary character temporarily elevated to a position of importance.

Agreed, though I will add that for all the risks Zenos supposedly takes, barring one, the others never seem to pan out being all that risky, be it jamming crystals into his palm, or the very experimental Resonance, so in some respects he seems to suffer from the same issue as the bolded. I imagine that might change soon.

But yes, one way to redeem him in my eyes would be what you mentioned.

I also hope if Emet does end up returning in some facet, we won't see him become yet another MC fanboy and will instead retain his sarcastic edge and sagacity. I am sure they know this is why he was so popular.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Uh yeah, that's my point to?? What I mean to say is that giving g'raha the Exarch's memory is already dubious enough, but he had to shove his own soul too. This resulted in current g'raha mostly being the Exarch, not our time line g'raha. And I personally dislike that.

He may have entrust the First into crystarium people, but I'm talking more about his self. And no, current g'raha isn't "next generation" past g'raha. If he truly was, he should be free from the knowledge and personality of the Exarch to develop into his own person, since the new time line will have new future. Maybe this example isn't the best, but this situation is like if minfilia still tag along inside ryne despite already giving all her power, and changing ryne's personality due to that.

Yep, this is a problem in my eyes too because it’s such a double standard of what they push with the antagonists. They tell them to look to the future and not look at the past or in Eden’s case mitron trying to restore Gaia’s memories, yet exarch does the exact same with graha and we shove his memories into him. It’s hypocritical and a really weak point that just makes me dislike Graha even more lol.

[Shougun]

Generally speaking, the antagonists in this game are much more interesting to me because there's actual stakes and consequences involved. If they put a plan into action, there's flaws to be exploited - whereas when the protagonists come up with some convoluted and needlessly contrived plan it somehow always works out in their favour even when it technically doesn't.

I think G'raha has overstayed his welcome and a lot of people only obsess over him because he strokes the ego of the player character. It's the same with Haurchefant, really - quite literally, in fact, since neither character appears to be well versed in the concept of tact or personal space.

I hope Zenos takes out G'raha in Endwalker. We're overdue a major character death and it'd be neat to see a fan favourite of prominence actually die rather than a secondary character temporarily elevated to a position of importance.

Maybe make like a Sephiroth shish kebab, slap Y'Shtola in there too :3

If she defies death one more time. . . . . !

[linayar]

I also hope if Emet does end up returning in some facet

Just...no.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Just...no.

Better than however many protags have popped up now from being dead randomly :^)