6.0 Story Speculations

[BlitzAceRush]

But doesn't Azen vacate their seat prior to the Final days reaching Amaurot and so before the summoning of Zodiark? While it's possible they return sometime between the summoning and the sacrifices given there're the "forgotten" member, it implies they were gone for a while.

[Rosenstrauch]

But doesn't Azen vacate their seat prior to the Final days reaching Amaurot and so before the summoning of Zodiark? While it's possible they return sometime between the summoning and the sacrifices given there're the "forgotten" member, it implies they were gone for a while.

I don't see why vacating their seat necessitates leaving Amaurot to begin with. It's a strange assumption to make, don't you think?

[BlitzAceRush]

I don't see why vacating their seat necessitates leaving Amaurot to begin with. It's a strange assumption to make, don't you think?

Given that all we're told of Azem is that their role was to leave the city and be the one to deal with and see things from the perspective of the outside while relaying it back, combined with their trend of "solving problems themselves" in conjunction with their seat being referred to as "forgotten" I'd find it a stranger assumption that after vacating their seat the "wonderer" would then remain in the city while the convocation resumed the very plan they objected to, while the issue at hand was not only out there and getting closer, but also hurting the people Azen had bent the rules so many times to protect.

[Alenore]

She seems unable or unwilling, to me, but the anti-Hydaelyn crowd used to just say "every time She's weak, She eats a world on purpose" as their interpretation of Calamities.

Well Venat must have forgotten to include a stomach in the blueprint then, since She gets weaker after each Calamity lol.

That's an interesting way of framing things. For starters, not everybody who is wary of Hydaelyn is even making the same arguments. Furthermore, the game has given many legitimate reason to doubt Hydaelyn (even if we're being generous and ignore the creepy patch art with Minfilia being bound in chains among various other factors, Krile and Y'shtola are currently doubting Hydaelyn in the most recent content patch).

I didn't feel it as "doubting" as much as "something's up" : for instance, they're even positing that something is blocking Hydaelyn's ability to reach out.

It's also worth noting that Emet describes this power, to enervate (which when you think about it is a pretty complex concept, since it strikes at all attributes), as one never seen before in the French version, which does make me wonder if some third party approached them with it and didn't fully apprise them of how it would work. Maybe the expectation was that it'd just work as a method of leaching Zodiark, but instead it went a lot further than that.

I mean, rewriting the law of physics/aether is a stretch too. I see it more in a way of "Put enough Aether and creation magic together, and you'll get yourself the outcome you wish for".

The evidence that supports Hydaelyn being summoned to stop the final days comes from the recordings at the end of the Anamnesis Anyder dungeon where Venat and followers discuss that Hydaelyn needs to be summoned to be a permanent solution to the coming of The Final Days as all Zodiark has done is just extend the time period before this comes to pass. Venat and company are presented as individuals who are out of options and I feel if there is something wrong with Hydaelyn, it is this forced desperation that encumbered her summoners.

Meaning, if we continue down the path of Zodiark as a blind power, he would resist Hydaelyn at all costs forcing her to amp up her actions to get balance and stop the Final Days from coming again. Granted it was less nefarious on the part of Hydaelyn, but she was just doing what she thought was right.

Some quotes from Anyder and previous dialogues, mostly when Emet-Selch teaches us about the whole enervate thingy.

That one seems to indicate Zodiark wasn't enough to fix things. They however speak about doom more than the Sound and the calamity itself. Perhaps the whole "sacrificing most of the population everytime we have something to do" didn't seem like a long-term solution to him, more than "The Sound will come back" ?

Venat : By the summoning of Zodiark have we been granted a reprieve. Yet immutable as the laws He has woven may seem, they will not serve to forestall our doom.

Distressed Ancient : Nay. Should we continue down this path, our fate will be the same. I said as much to the Convocation, of course, but the stubborn fools turned a deaf ear to my warnings. I had hoped that the defector, at least, would side with us, but I regret to report our overtures have gone unanswered. Whither tend your thoughts, Venat? Where you lead, we will follow.[/QUOTE]

The following ones tend to agree with the viewpoint of "Hydaelyn is Venat's idea of checks and balances. Emet-Selch Point of view must be taken with a grain of salt though, since he probably doesn't have the whole picture / doesn't see past the main result of why Venat and his followers summoned Hydaelyn.

Let us bring forth the light that shall ever after keep the Darkness in check.

If Hydaelyn is to stand a chance of opposing Him, I am the only one who might suffice as Her heart. Rest assured, however: I shall not banish from this world. The form I take shall ever remain my choice.

Some were of the viewpoint that His power must needs be restrained, and to that end did they call forth She who would serve as His shackles.

En tant que garde fou de Zordiark, Hydaelyn était dotée de capacités tout bonnement extraordinaires. / As a check to Zodiark, Hydaelyn was given simply exceptionnal abilities.

I suppose both theories hold until we get more informations.

[Rosenstrauch]

Given that all we're told of Azem is that their role was to leave the city and be the one to deal with and see things from the perspective of the outside while relaying it back, combined with their trend of "solving problems themselves" in conjunction with their seat being referred to as "forgotten" I'd find it a stranger assumption that after vacating their seat the "wonderer" would then remain in the city while the convocation resumed the very plan they objected to, while the issue at hand was not only out there and getting closer, but also hurting the people Azen had bent the rules so many times to protect.

I disagree, on the basis that the very event that lead to Azem stepping down was the decision to summon Zodiark. I'm of the mind that this decision wasn't made before the disaster spread to Amaurot, but after. That it wasn't until the Convocation had full knowledge of just how widespread the destruction truly was—what with the entire planet being bombarded by meteors and so on—that they realized what was actually happening and what it would necessitate to stop it.

By that point, Azem running around on their own would accomplish nothing short of getting themselves killed, rather than saving anyone. And that's if there was anyone left out there to begin with.

And after Zodiark was summoned? The world miraculously stopped ending, and then miraculously was revitalized, with new life in place of the old. It was no longer in a state where it needed to be saved, and there's no particular reason for Azem to go rushing out on their own to do it. And since I'm of the mind that Azem was the critic against further use of Zodiark's power, I'd posit that they'd grown disillusioned with Amaurot's self-imposed "stewards of this star" role.

[BlitzAceRush]

I disagree, on the basis that the very event that lead to Azem stepping down was the decision to summon Zodiark. I'm of the mind that this decision wasn't made before the disaster spread to Amaurot, but after. That it wasn't until the Convocation had full knowledge of just how widespread the destruction truly was—what with the entire planet being bombarded by meteors and so on—that they realized what was actually happening and what it would necessitate to stop it.

By that point, Azem running around on their own would accomplish nothing short of getting themselves killed, rather than saving anyone. And that's if there was anyone left out there to begin with.

And after Zodiark was summoned? The world miraculously stopped ending, and then miraculously was revitalized, with new life in place of the old. It was no longer in a state where it needed to be saved, and there's no particular reason for Azem to go rushing out on their own to do it. And since I'm of the mind that Azem was the critic against further use of Zodiark's power, I'd posit that they'd grown disillusioned with Amaurot's self-imposed "stewards of this star" role.

Except when you arrive in the "Fake Amaurot" with the Scions and talk with the shades there, they refer to the Convocation of the 13, not 14 but also imply the Convocation are working on a plan that will save them, so they've not done anything yet, but also Azem isn't counted as being a member anymore, also they still talk of the disaster being in far off lands but getting closer, all of that shows Azem having already vacated before the end days reached Amaurot and before the summoning happened.
I could see them returning after the summoning to oppose them using him again, but it's clear from what we see in game that Azem did leave before hand, there seems to be a gap of time between the decision to use Zodiark and the end days getting to them.
Though that raises another question, if they came up with the plan so far ahead, but Emet shows us Amaurot burning, why'd they wait so long? Hesitation perhaps?

[Rosenstrauch]

I see "Fake Amaurot" as being akin to a museum wing, rather than a slice of any specific moment in the city's history. As such, things like "the Convocation of Thirteen" would be anachronistic knowledge, akin to an animatronic dummy waxing on about, say, the Trail of Tears in a setpiece representing a Choctaw settlement before 1831.

[BlitzAceRush]

Though this museum wing was created by someone who was actually there at the time with the memories of a lot of the people who existed at that time, while the people there are just actors playing their part as Hythlodaeus's shade put it, "There stuck in this moment, replaying it, going about their lives unaware" So from how it was created to by whom, it dose seem to be a literal holodeck scene of "The final days of Amaurot" and Azem isn't there or even considered on the Convocation at that point in their history.

[OzumaKuma]

I bet Sharlayan was founded by the group of Ancients that opposed Zodiark.

[Cilia]

Just to clarify a few things 'fore I pass out:

The phantom Amaurot is taken from an exact point in time: according to the phantom Hythlodaeus (a.k.a. Emet-Selch), it's drawn from the eve of the Final Days reaching Amaurot.

Azem had already vacated his/her seat in the Convocation at that point, or otherwise wasn't present.

My general read is that Zodiark was simply too powerful for Hydaelyn to defeat in a contest of pure power (not surprising), so she had to sunder him to fulfill her directive; unfortunately being "the will of the star" this act sundered the physical planet and everything on it as an unintended side effect.

I'd agree the Sound was just a MacGuffin to precipitate the fall from paradise, but considering how detailed this game tends to be about the smallest things, and in the Announcement Showcase one of the questions posed was specifically "What [caused] the Final Days?", I don't think that's the case. (And, being inquisitive by nature, I'd be super disappointed if it were.)