6.0 Story Speculations

[Lauront]

Emet-Selch said his plan was to rejoin all sundered life into the Source and sacrifice it all.

That's not really in dispute. They're talking about the final stage of sacrifice that sparked the whole conflict.




In that respect, it is certainly not all unsundered life.

Hythlodaeus even vouched for Venat's motivation.

He does - that's not the point. The point is that she does not frame it that way at all and speaks of Zodiark not being a true solution to the problem, and that their current path would lead once more to their doom. The sacrifices to return the ancients dormant in Zodiark no doubt tie directly to this, but the question is, in what way? In an instrumental way or do they see the sacrifices themselves as "their doom"?

This comes down to how you want to interpret Venat. Because it can be seen as you explain above, or Venat and company can be seen to have had their hand forced into this situation of summoning Hydaelyn. If the convocation is tempered as Emet claims, then the value of debate and discussion is essentially out the window when in comes to a topic like Zodiark will kill us all eventually. The lack of ill will from Venat can be seen as pity not respect or pragmatics, because you'd feel bad for a person if they were tempered can could never have their mind changed.

We can speculate all day on what the meaning behind it is and come up with our own interpretations - including of how the ancients viewed tempering as a phenomenon in the first place; particularly for a group themselves summoning a Primal. There is also the possibility that the Convocation simply thought their proposed "solution" wasn't one at all and would lead to further problems down the line. Again, our understanding of tempering is expanding and there are clearly different ways in which Primals inflict it, and this is going to be so all the more so for a Primal with a controller/"heart".

The way they are wording things here is rather different to what you'd expect of them saying the group cannot be reasoned with at all - only that they would not countenance their proposed solution:



Similar in French (only translated bits in to avoid bloat):

= “Companions, thank you for assembling at the Anyder despite the circumstances.”

= “The summoning of Zodiark had the effect of calming the (calamity). And some see that the new order that it has given birth to flawless robustness.”

= “Unfortunately, we are more than ever at a loss. This artifice has only delayed the inevitable.”

= “I tried to convey this to the Council of fourteen, but my opinion was not taken into account.”

= “As for the member who left his seat vacant, I do not know whether his intention is to remain neutral until the end. In any case, our solicitations are always in vain.”

= “Venerable Venat, could you share your thoughts on this?”

= “It is futile to make attempts to approach the members of the Council. Like us, they want nothing but a prosperous future for our world.”

= “Instead, ask yourself whether you are ready to follow the path we have chosen, even if
it means you have to face them, as well as many of our fellow compatriots…”

= “If that's the case, then follow me and let's create a brake on this future together.”

= “To oppose the Light to the Shadows of Zodiark, we will give birth to… Hydaelyn.”

I will grant that it could turn out that they believed it was pointless to reason with them owing to tempering, but it's a stretch to say it's in any way aligned with the wording there.

Given Elidibus himself was confused on what the Convocation actually wanted, and he obviously did not receive any influence from Venat's group, I think this is more a case of everyone disagreeing with each other, and they happened to coalesce into two vague groups that continued to squabble among themselves. Maybe they started as being all polite and Amaurotine about it at first, but seeing how the Ascians we see in the present day apparently loathe each other, obviously it didn't last.

One of the major issues is that Emet-Selch is the only source of information on what the people of the Ancient world actually wanted, and we know how biased he is, as well as prone to leaving out rather important bits of information to serve his own purposes. Lahabrea had gone crazy (with considering Zodiark as the One True God), and Elidibus was senile. The other Ascians had been subordinate to the Unsundered (primarily the aforementioned Crazy Lahabrea), and once all the Unsundered were dead, the one example we see of Fandaniel decided to Kill Everything, ignoring the whole Rejoining business. At this point, it does seem like literally only Emet-Selch was on-board with the original plan of "Rejoin then sacrifice".

Elidibus returned to assist in resolving the dispute, as it was his role in the first place. Drawing inferences from the Ascians at present to how they saw each other back then is rather inapt, precisely because Emet was dismayed by the way their own memories and identities faded as his remained intact, and with the sundered Overlords, it comes down to how effectively the memory crystal restores their memories - it can be very effective as Mitron and Loghrif showed in the cutscene before Zodiark's statue, or as in Fandaniel's case, not too good, because his memory crystal is described as being faded (French for comparison). Either way, the Ascians are several thousand years divorced from the pre-sundering world.



Beyond that, the scene in question is appears to be from just before they summoned Hydaelyn, so while things may have deteriorated thence, it scarcely matters for the point of summoning.

On Emet's testimony, he may well be "biased" (as I have no doubt Hydaelyn herself is in turn), but his account of her group and their intentions is in fact reproduced in the footage held in Anamnesis Anyder. He also volunteered even more information than that through Hythlodaeus; while perhaps a supposed "accident", he could've easily snuffed him out and re-purposed the shade if he truly did not intend that information to be conveyed.

On Lahabrea, we have this, which Theodric alluded to, from Yoshi:

11. Elidibus once described Lahabrea as "unique" after taking a long pause to choose his words. Did he, like Emet-Selch, have less favorable judgement of their colleague in recent years while being too polite to say so?

Oda: I believe that Elidibus's feelings towards his colleagues and the other Ascians' feelings towards each other will be explored in the story itself. The plot has been submitted to Yoshida and he is revising it. Once it gets the green light, we'll explore it more.

Yoshida: This has close ties with the upcoming story so there's not much we can say today. There was a sort of respect between them, I believe, and if you look at Emet-Selch’s dialogue, he said Lahabrea would wear himself down. Lahabrea was a workaholic, like me. He works a lot and can seem crazy. It has a similar meaning there.

I think the short story does a good job of conveying that it was more down to recklessness than mere craziness:

I closed my eyes, letting out a measured breath, or what passed for one in the emptiness of the rift. He was right, of course. Lahabrea's boldness had only grown with the passing of ages─segueing inevitably into recklessness. Across many vessels and many worlds he blazed his trail, each mad leap forward leaving him that much more broken. Not satisfied with having brought about the Seventh Umbral Calamity, he labored needlessly to prolong it.

Was it his affinity for concepts of flame that made him so like the fire itself? From peerless Ifrita to that hopelessly immortal bird, his creations had burned bright and beautiful─as did he.

He should have known what becomes of the flame once all else is ash.

I opened my eyes to take in my brother's face, but the lips visible below his mask bore no expression. Would he never again show what he felt for us, as he once had so readily? Were those very sentiments long lost?

"What is it, Emet-Selch?"

"Nothing. I was only thinking how similar Lahabrea was to his creations."

"His creations?" I had little difficulty reading Elidibus's uncertainty this time. He couldn't remember. If his clenched fists were any indication, he shared my conclusion: yet another part of him had been lost. Ever since the day he had reappeared to us as the embodiment of "hope," time's tides had conspired to wash away what bits and pieces remained of the person he once was.

"Will you not look at your crystal?" I asked.

When Elidibus was still Elidibus and Lahabrea still Lahabrea, we had collected all of our memories of the Fourteen and committed them to crystal, that those who would take our seats one day might learn. Elidibus would, I was sure, find much within to help him remember─yet he shook his head.

"I am Elidibus. So long as I remember my duty, that is enough. Aught else I would only lose again in the course of this timeless struggle...and if these memories are truly so precious, pray do not ask that I forget them twice."

And again, from the French version...

Well, he was right. Lahabrea had long been the most restless, if not the most reckless of the three of us. He did not stop before anything to achieve his goal: journeys between worlds, transformations of all kinds…(A rushing ahead) that led him slowly but surely to his loss. Lately, he had been trying to cause an (umbral calamity), even though the last one had just taken place… under his impulse.

His temperament reminded me of the image of a fiery brazier, probably inspired by all those sublime entities of fire that he had born, whether it be the immortal bird of Ifritah, the spirit of the flames. At the zenith of his career, his own flame had been bright, it was beautiful - and, like any flame, it was doomed to extinguish after consuming everything.

Also I don't subscribe to the notion that simply because they may have had some lapse in their memory (Elidibus) or identity (Lahabrea), that everything they say is wrong as a result. You are of the view that Krile and Y'shtola are misguided for even questioning Hydaelyn, even after her rather peculiar (to be generous) account of the origin of the world, but might not a similar dose of scepticism be due in her direction, too?


All I will agree on at this point is that we're missing further information.