I think I want subjobs more than I want job balance.

[ItMe]

Okay, more than I think. I definitely want this.
[...]
I know it would be a lot of work to make such a thing "work", and the system as it stands wasn't necessarily made to accommodate it. But honestly, in my heart I just want subjobs, I don't care what it breaks. Subjobs are worth it.

It doesn't matter if we want them or not, or if there is a way to feasibly make them balanced or not, Yoshi P has been so insistent on moving away from anything remotely customizable about the jobs that for better or worse we should never expect them to come back (at least not while he is at the helm).

[Shougun]

Maybe a bit counter but I feel we should just remove the last bits of cross class entirely. They offer little besides budget friendly solutions to key skills, while they take away potential creativity visually and mechanically. Even under a very plain situation of say returning tank cd and giving other tanks the same exact cooldown with a different animation- then you still gained some more visual identity rather than a skill sticking out that doesn't flow in theme. But in most of those cases you could picture slight alterations which help continue to make each job feel unique while not massively altering balance course.

I can't say I would hate it if they did achieve sub job system again, but at least from 1.Yoshi to now I've felt losing options has made the jobs better each time. There was 1.0 Tanaka where job choices were a bit wild, but those skills died loooongg ago and I imagine most don't even remember phantom dart on THM lol. I have all the jobs leveled so it would honestly mean little to me in terms of cost but of course to a new player sometimes these systems can be a bit punishing, although we do have the MSQ that gates your time as well so /shrug lol.

Personally I imagine the easiest and yet solid choice is just to enshrine each job as their own set piece (disconnect everything). And any reconnection or maintained connection that isn't done fantastically well is just going to be "meh". Like before we did have some choices in our cross class system but there was usually either 0 choices or 1 choice, the rest were like "if you dont have that then you did it wrong, do not pass go, do not join my party, where the heck is your fast cast?" lol. Cross class, imo, in this game has had a poor track record, but each class gaining more and more of their own skills has, imo, a good track record.

Like I said though I can't say I'd hate it, it might be fun, I have had loads of fun in Hades and Diablo 3 when I get to kit myself out, and I did have fun in FFXI too trying out things like DRG with pocket healer wyvern and etc. Just seems like a very dangerous u-turn like action. It could be a fun one, but seems dangerous lol. As well the alternative option, is fun too and is far less dangerous- so it just seems to me to make sense continuing to deconstruct that system (at least for this MMO).

To dilute my own counter for the heck of it- I have thought, but more particularly for a /future/ mmo by SE, that they give the concept of limited jobs and normal jobs a flip (think limited in the best possible format of wild ideas, not say level 1 - 50 blue mage which I think isn't particularly that great of a poster child to what I'm trying to say lol, think best of 60-70 maybe :P). Where in the wild wacky and perhaps sometimes a bit unbalanced from each other jobs are your 'main' and then in PvP and most hardcore content you can challenge it via your 'normal kit'. So as a Summoner you may need to pilgrimage and approach the game differently than say a Black Mage who needs to visit city libraries, ranger needing to make arrows (which the game can give simple bushcraft solutions to, to prevent being poor lol), or a warrior who needs to find certain hunts or a blue mage learning monster spells and an abnormally large spell book. The MSQ and casual content being designed to be cleared by weird set ups. Of course there will still be a META but for MSQ and casual content it wont be that important, and when it does become more important (hardcore / pvp) your kit is far more balanced.

[Katie_Kitty]

"I think I want subjobs more than I want job balance."


Okay let's see you say that when the subjob you love is deemed trash and unwanted and now you can't find a group

[StormyFae]

To be honest I agree, I would rather be allowed to play my way and style of play than just being another copy of 2million people with the same job (which is what the game really is currently) no matter what you either play the job the same or your trash pretty much, that's why id prefer sub jobs/ or a system that lets us pick mastery's or something to make how we play majorly unique to how others play the same job..

as for balance I honestly don't give a damn about balance because in pve balance means nothing than just means get a better AI and create challenges for each thing...

balance in pve is rlly the dumbest thing to care about, if it was pvp id agree balance is important but its not in pve

honestly it doesn't feel good when in the end because we get EVERY ability and every passive with the same job, then the combos/and attack lay outs is at major ends, either you preform it correctly or you are playing the job horrible.. which honestly makes it really braindead and zone out game play, that lets face it someone could set a autohot key up and it would play the job perfectly ;p and I don't play on pc lol

this thing with modern games being like "Well everyone will go with the "meta" so we will just make the entire games combat a meta itself" is really depressing as someone who has always built uniquely and made it work 20x better than peoples "meta"

to be honest games without customization on jobs are just asking for bots to do everything and sell stuff, so honestly lol

Lets face it pre 2010 you had to be smart to create or use a bot, with current games removing customization from jobs/classes or w/e the game has all someone has to do is use a autokey program and set in timers for movement dodges and attack combos, which are honestly faster than a macro in game, doing so is rather easy considering a fight is always the same pattern (yes may have different mechs in it but once u run it once and see the full pattern its rather simple, if you don't zone out and do something dumb lol.

I mean even if its just something small like animation or style to give us something a unique

for example switching blms combo to blizzard for dmg and fire for recovering mp or lighting for damage and bliz to recover mp and fire dot

[Dzian]

Anyone claiming it's more massive and alive then FFXIV, are really grasping at straws. It was a sludge fest, very slow paced even if some thought it more strategic due to the limited menu systems. Oh, well, we need you to cast this, but need to wait 30 seconds or do, so please wait! Or, just bringing people strictly for stun, and nothing but a stun on bosses. Or the long fights that dredged on and on for hours and hours and hours...

I think you've missed the point. When people say its bigger and more alive than XIV they typically refer to the worlds. not players or number of players but just game world., Vanadiel felt alive when you ran through it. Eorzea feels baren and lifeless by comparison.

Literally the most interesting thing that happens in Eorzea if if you've completed Omega story, you might, just might spot Alpha out in the world occassionally.. thats literally it...

Even story wise Eorzea never changes...
Take the Azzimm Steppe.. you take part in this epic battle the naadam or whatever, win it for the underdogs and...... well nothing happens.. it's still the exact same steppe it was before.. nothing matters in anyway.

By contrast literally everything that happend in XI changed vana'diel in someway.. thats what made it feel alive.

[Brightamethyst]

by contrast literally everything that happend in XI changed vana'diel in someway.. thats what made it feel alive.

When? Admittedly I didn't play past the 75 era, but in the 6-ish years I played literally nothing changed.

[Jirah]

Rather have different styles to jobs, imagine a game where bowmage and Shadowbringer bard can coexist

[Komarimono]

I think you've missed the point. When people say its bigger and more alive than XIV they typically refer to the worlds. not players or number of players but just game world., Vanadiel felt alive when you ran through it. Eorzea feels baren and lifeless by comparison.

literally the most interesting thing that happens in eorzea if if you've completed omega story, you might just might spot alpha out in the world occassionally.. thats literally it...

even story wise eorzea never changes... take the azzimm steppe.. you take part in this epic battle the naadam or whatever, win it for the underdogs and wellllll nothinghappens.. it's still the exact same steppe it was before.. nothing matters in anyway.

by contrast literally everything that happend in XI changed vana'diel in someway.. thats what made it feel alive.

When did anything change? I am curious about this now, since never saw such things happen.

[Dzian]

When? Admittedly I didn't play past the 75 era, but in the 6-ish years I played literally nothing changed.

Everything was ever changing, The balance of power in every zone, The stock and prices of goods at vendors based on balance of power, The wherabouts and services offered by various npcs. The level and strength of beast tribes based on various world events campaign beseiged etc.. Zones that literally changed every hour or opened new paths depending on the weather or other gimmicks.. The world changed on a daily basis.

Yesterday you went to an outpost and warped home.. today you went to the same outpost and found the beastmen had taken control of the region so you couldn't warp or anything.
You went to an npc to buy some stuff only to find they werent selling it because the balance of power changed and impacted supplies and they had no stock.
You went to ride the ferry and do some fishing or something. Yesterday was fine but today you got attacked by pirates....
Hell just the fact that monsters could actually kill you made the world feel more alive than eorzea. where you can run straight past a mob 50 levels higher than you safely. Who cares if it aggros you. it'll stop chasing you after 6 steps.

There's hundreds of examples

As the saying goes. It's the little things that make a big difference..

[Jkap_Goat]

null

I never played ffxi during its prime ( i wish i did) but FFXIV is so boring, like yeah some of ffxiv does better than ffxi and i can't talk about nostalgia glasses because i don't have any. But you cannot sit there and say that FFXI has notthing better than xiv, here is my experience playing ffxiv and going to xi and also, my cons with xiv.
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FFXIV is too easy, dungons are a hallway linear and there is little exploration.

In XIV, there is no room to experiment and only one way to play a job, only room to experiment with jobs is materia system and that isnt much

No dangerous zones, ffxiv overworld and monsters are such a bore, you can just run away and the will just turn back where it came from.

XIV has No sense of danger other than the high floors of HoH,PoTD, Savage and Euerka, ffxiv though the story and MSQ, there is notthing of danger, they even added a feature to automatically not detect you on Botanist/Miner because people couldn't use Hide and bitched about getting killed.

XIV gil doesn't mean anything unless you want a house, and HQ doesn't mean anything since everyone and their mother can easily HQ, so whats the point of having NQ gear anyways?

Jobs feel very homogenized, i don't play tank but SHB DRK/WAR feels very similar from what i hear.

FFXIV smashing buttons gets boring and my fingers hurt after playing ffxiv/Re4 QTE

FFXIV summoner isn't a summoner, like yeah it got phoenix and bahumut, but they are only there for a few seconds, like and they are missing a few summons like Shiva, leviathan, odin, cait sith, ffxiv summoner seems like such a downgraded from FFXI summoner

FFXI Support jobs are support, what happened to xiv bard? Lost all of it support and xiv dnc took it, AST support? People complain and all its cards are DPS, SCH? Nerfed to the ground and lost lots of its abilities.



FFXI world is massive and dangerous, your always out in the world somewhere, im not sitting in lower limsa all day waiting for a dungeon to pop. Only thing i can say about ffxiv is i hope the new expansion does something different with healers than its current " one DoT, one Nuke, one AoE" formula or im kinda done with xiv.