Death unto Dawn page up

[Rosenstrauch]

Pretty sure he was there, he just lucked out and didn't get killed.

That seems unlikely to me—wouldn't he have been captured, then?

[Beddict]

That seems unlikely to me—wouldn't he have been captured, then?

Arenvald mentions that Aulie and A'aba died making sure he could escape. Two seasoned adventurers protecting him and a heap of luck explains why he got out safely.

[Vyrerus]

That seems unlikely to me—wouldn't he have been captured, then?

The whole scene with the Garleans storming the place is visually fairly vague. Like, with how violent they were being, there was no reason for them to actually spare Urianger, Tataru, or Papalymo. Particularly Tataru. They literally killed everyone else, even the gear mender and the unarmed Ala Mhigan espionage guy.

When you enter the Waking Sands, there are more corpses on the floor than when Livia strikes the killing blow on Noraxia. Only Urianger, Tataru, and Papalymo are lead out alive. We never learn why.

No one has really mentioned Noraxia since then. I mean the last mention of Noraxia was when we took her body back to her Elder Frixio for burial.

Yep, but he mentioned side characters that aren't involved in the MSQ anymore than he is, so you'd think he'd have mentioned her too since she had a bigger role in it than him, at the time.

[Rannie]

The whole scene with the Garleans storming the place is visually fairly vague. Like, with how violent they were being, there was no reason for them to actually spare Urianger, Tataru, or Papalymo. Particularly Tataru. They literally killed everyone else, even the gear mender and the unarmed Ala Mhigan espionage guy.

When you enter the Waking Sands, there are more corpses on the floor than when Livia strikes the killing blow on Noraxia. Only Urianger, Tataru, and Papalymo are lead out alive. We never learn why.



Yep, but he mentioned side characters that aren't involved in the MSQ anymore than he is, so you'd think he'd have mentioned her too since she had a bigger role in it than him, at the time.

Ahah I knew something was off this is EXACTLY what Arenvald says

Arenvald: [Player Name], have you heard? I have been chosen to serve as Noraxia's bodyguard. There have been increasing reports of Imperial activity in Thanalan, and so the Antecedent insists that our guest be escorted whenever venturing outside.

(I bolded and italicized the last part)

ONLY a bodyguard when going out not when inside the Waking Sands and Thus why he would not be acting as one when Livia attacked and killed them.

I'm glad I had an Alt at that part she's still at that part as well I just killed the nix and haven't turned it is.

Btw Noraxia, while it did save Minfillia or get in the way of Livia, it didn't have that big of a part up until that point. You may say that the part where they block off Livia makes it so but it really doesn't. It was just a senseless kill the writers did to show or try to show you that the Empire was Evil. If Noraxia had stayed hidden it would have lived and Minfillia would still have been taken captive as per the orders that were given by either Lahabrea or Gaius

[Vyrerus]

Ahah I knew something was off this is EXACTLY what Arenvald says

Arenvald: [Player Name], have you heard? I have been chosen to serve as Noraxia's bodyguard. There have been increasing reports of Imperial activity in Thanalan, and so the Antecedent insists that our guest be escorted whenever venturing outside.

(I bolded and italicized the last part)

ONLY a bodyguard when going out not when inside the Waking Sands and Thus why he would not be acting as one when Livia attacked and killed them.

I'm glad I had an Alt at that part she's still at that part as well I just killed the nix and haven't turned it is.

Btw Noraxia, while it did save Minfillia or get in the way of Livia, it didn't have that big of a part up until that point. You may say that the part where they block off Livia makes it so but it really doesn't. It was just a senseless kill the writers did to show or try to show you that the Empire was Evil. If Noraxia had stayed hidden it would have lived and Minfillia would still have been taken captive as per the orders that were given by either Lahabrea or Gaius

So you're insisting that because the orders were specifically to only protect her when she was outside, that Arenvald shouldn't/wouldn't/couldn't express remorse for not protecting his charge? He's an honorable guy, even blamed himself for Krile's kidnapping. Very relatable to us. I doubt he's gonna lawyer his way around the specifics of swearing to protect someone's life. It's pretty clear that the writers chose to drop the Noraxia portion of his past.

Yeah, I'm aware that Noraxia's part was a bit part, but it was still more than Aulie's or A'aba's, and Arenvald's at the time. If you choose not to talk to them, you don't even meet them.

[Rannie]

So you're insisting that because the orders were specifically to only protect her when she was outside, that Arenvald shouldn't/wouldn't/couldn't express remorse for not protecting his charge? He's an honorable guy, even blamed himself for Krile's kidnapping. Very relatable to us. I doubt he's gonna lawyer his way around the specifics of swearing to protect someone's life. It's pretty clear that the writers chose to drop the Noraxia portion of his past.

Yeah, I'm aware that Noraxia's part was a bit part, but it was still more than Aulie's or A'aba's, and Arenvald's at the time. If you choose not to talk to them, you don't even meet them.

I'm saying that you are grasping at straws with his "oathbreaking" and his karma being due to him for not protecting his charge when he had no need to protect it WHILE in the Waking Sands as it was not his duty to solely protect it. He didn't fail in anything and his friends sacrificed themselves to protect him. He can regret not being able to protect everyone but you can't say it was his fault at time. There is no bad Karma and no Oathbreaking. I'm sure our Character regrets not being there to try to help protect them as well.

I mean even if he wasn't in said cutscene we as you've stated before don't see everything as it was going on. However I can tell you it was a huge amount of fighting as it could be heard by the people outside (who comment even on it) no he did what he could and lost two people who were close to him as they covered his escape.

[Vyrerus]

I'm saying that you are grasping at straws

Am I? No character is perfect, and I've got no real hatred for Arenvald. I just wish he addressed something about this, because he did swear to protect her. You're basically saying that his next words are empty, because of specific stipulations set forth for his duty as a Scion.

He swore. That's an oath, a promise. As presented it means he doesn't care about it at all.

The blame for Noraxia's death is ultimately on the Garleans, but that doesn't mean that Arenvald kept his promise.

[Rannie]

Am I? No character is perfect, and I've got no real hatred for Arenvald. I just wish he addressed something about this, because he did swear to protect her. You're basically saying that his next words are empty, because of specific stipulations set forth for his duty as a Scion.

He swore. That's an oath, a promise. As presented it means he doesn't care about it at all.

The blame for Noraxia's death is ultimately on the Garleans, but that doesn't mean that Arenvald kept his promise.

You are still grasping at straws. You continually claim he failed and broke a promise to protect it. However, it was still just contingent on them going outside of the Waking Sands you're also contributing his friends making him leave during said fighting was him breaking said oath.

You do not know how exactly he handled that situation, and as you said it was not shown. The only dialogue after was him mourning the loss of his friends when they held the line so he could escape. You don't know how much he had fought and how much of it had been a losing battle.

One thing we can infer from everything that happened during the Waking Sands is they were ALL taken by surprise they all fought and they LOST. Noraxia died a meaningless death and while he may blame himself he wouldn't be blaming himself just for the death of one he would do it for all the life lost that day and then determine to make himself stronger in which he did.

(BTW don't take this as me being angry or anything with you it is just a discussion and I keep trying to figure out how to put in something about Thancred being Lahabreated =P)

Edut: just to be clearer I'm saying you're grasping at straws for a reason that he needs to have comeuppance or karma for something that happened beyond his control.

[Enkidoh]

The whole scene with the Garleans storming the place is visually fairly vague. Like, with how violent they were being, there was no reason for them to actually spare Urianger, Tataru, or Papalymo. Particularly Tataru. They literally killed everyone else, even the gear mender and the unarmed Ala Mhigan espionage guy.

When you enter the Waking Sands, there are more corpses on the floor than when Livia strikes the killing blow on Noraxia. Only Urianger, Tataru, and Papalymo are lead out alive. We never learn why.

The Archons were spared and arrested by the Garleans because of their potential intelligence and information they might possess that would be useful to the Garleans, specifically concerning the Echo and Primals (you see this later in a scene in Castrum Centri where Livia is seen torturing Minfilia for information about the Echo) - the main fatalities in the Waking Sands were just random adventurers and Ul'dahan Immortal Flames guards and hence 'cannon fodder'. Tataru being the doorgirl and secretary also would have knowledge of the comings and goings of the organisation, and especially potential whereabouts of the actual target of the raid (who wasn't even there) - you, the adventurer who became the Warrior of Light - so she was arrested too.

Remember, Lahabrea had possessed Thancred by this stage and would have had access to his memories and knowledge - he would have known exaxctly who would have been the most important for information to the Garleans, and simply instructed Livia on who to seek out. Also the Garleans' long standing hatred for the beastmen meant Livia's especially brutal killing of Noraxia was hardly unexpected - the poor little sylph was not even a sentient being in Livia's eyes, just yet another monster to be put down.

The attack on the Waking Sands was to gain information about the Echo, specifically it's protection from Primal tempering, and in particular capture one particularly potent Echo user that had started making a name for themself as the 'Eikon Slayer', but failing to apprehend you, the Sharlayan Archons along with the Scions' leader and her secretary would naturally be the most useful, everyone else in there is simply expendable (and thus slaughtered). Also, Livia herself kills one of her own troops for being too bloodthirsty (as I recall the soldier was in such a frenzy he was basically butchering an already dead corpse with a spear), so it was zigzagged as to the Garleans unnecessarily brutal response on the place.

Either way, the attack on the Waking Sands somewhat failed in it's objectives - it was to capture the future Warrior of Light in order to gain some insight into how the Echo protects against tempering, but Livia utterly failed in that objective, and so simply arrested the next best thing - Minfilia, Tataru and the Archons who she hoped at least would field some useful info. Everyone else sadly in the Waking Sands at the time was superflorous, and thus condemmed to death for being witnesses to the attack.

If Arenvald had stayed and guarded Minfilia and Noraxia, he would have almost certainly been killed by Livia anyway, a noble death is still a death that would have been totally avoidable.

[MrThinker]

The Archons were spared and arrested by the Garleans because of their potential intelligence and information they might possess that would be useful to the Garleans, specifically concerning the Echo and Primals (you see this later in a scene in Castrum Centri where Livia is seen torturing Minfilia for information about the Echo) - the main fatalities in the Waking Sands were just random adventurers and Ul'dahan Immortal Flames guards and hence 'cannon fodder'. Tataru being the doorgirl and secretary also would have knowledge of the comings and goings of the organisation, and especially potential whereabouts of the actual target of the raid (who wasn't even there) - you, the adventurer who became the Warrior of Light - so she was arrested too.

Remember, Lahabrea had possessed Thancred by this stage and would have had access to his memories and knowledge - he would have known exaxctly who would have been the most important for information to the Garleans, and simply instructed Livia on who to seek out. Also the Garleans' long standing hatred for the beastmen meant Livia's especially brutal killing of Noraxia was hardly unexpected - the poor little sylph was not even a sentient being in Livia's eyes, just yet another monster to be put down.

The attack on the Waking Sands was to gain information about the Echo, specifically it's protection from Primal tempering, and in particular capture one particularly potent Echo user that had started making a name for themself as the 'Eikon Slayer', but failing to apprehend you, the Sharlayan Archons along with the Scions' leader and her secretary would naturally be the most useful, everyone else in there is simply expendable (and thus slaughtered). Also, Livia herself kills one of her own troops for being too bloodthirsty (as I recall the soldier was in such a frenzy he was basically butchering an already dead corpse with a spear), so it was zigzagged as to the Garleans unnecessarily brutal response on the place.

Either way, the attack on the Waking Sands somewhat failed in it's objectives - it was to capture the future Warrior of Light in order to gain some insight into how the Echo protects against tempering, but Livia utterly failed in that objective, and so simply arrested the next best thing - Minfilia, Tataru and the Archons who she hoped at least would field some useful info. Everyone else sadly in the Waking Sands at the time was superflorous, and thus condemmed to death for being witnesses to the attack.

If Arenvald had stayed and guarded Minfilia and Noraxia, he would have almost certainly been killed by Livia anyway, a noble death is still a death that would have been totally avoidable.

How exactly did Arenvald survive? I remember him saying that he was somehow protected by the Miqo'te and Elezen whose names both began with A, but not much else.