RP Party finders being reported AGAIN without so much as a reason.

[Saefinn]

I said I don't have an issue with people doing it in their own privacy, not that I was on a moral crusade to prohibit players from doing it.

It's funny people react like I'm a parental authority and you need my agreement on wether or not it's okay to do it. Do whatever the hell you want but leave minors out or you will reap the consequences of your own actions. There's parents with children that play this game. I've said this a million times already but it's not hard to restrict yourself to see the bigger picture here. You are killing your own interests by publically advertising these avenues. People will pick up on it. Avoid you. Is that a price you are willing to pay? Because that's how the world works. I can't stop you from doing ERP - but you can't force people to accept it. Where this line will shift entirely depends on Square Enix. Neither me or you have any say in this, we can only arbitrarily argue based on our moral compass. Fact of the matter is, people of all kinds of ages and religions/countries play this game, and you cannot shove your views down their throat. Every company will try their best to steer clear from controversy but with ERP it's effectively like a ticking time bomb. There's plenty of cases where companies have suffer from bad reputation because they turned a blind eye towards issues similiar in nature to this.

I feel like you've not got the point. I am confused where you're getting this from.

If anything you're find i have agreed that minors should be kept out of it. And that I agree if in this age rated game that if SE decided ERP venues should be kept out of PF I have been on board with that. And that they should find other methods. The only thing I've defended is private ERP between consenting adults. Whilst I am not bothered by people advertising, as I don't have to follow through on them, but of course the issue of minors comes up, by which point, I choose the option that puts reasonable steps to protect that.

But my point is, that won't stop these PF's going up if there's a monetary incentive.

Whether that is right or wrong is immaterial. Whether I find that right or wrong is immaterial. Whether SE forbids it is immaterial. What ends up mattering is what SE does about it (and as we can see, things SE forbids still remain in abundance)

It's not a defense nor do I advocate it. It's just the way it is. Heck if it's devious like the OP here where they try to "cheat the censor" so to speak in carefully worded advertisements they play semantics with knowing full well they advertise ERP services, then I am against that.

Wait, so people putting their RP venues up, under everyone elses RMT content selling garbage, not abusing tags or anything are getting reprimanded but not the content sellers who are legitimately making side money off of SE's product with out regulation or censure.

Obviously the course is clear. Time to start reporting the RMT ads. Like full stop. Put the focus where its supposed to be.

Also I guess this is going to hurt the RP brothel business. Used to see this boldly proclaimed in PF often but it looks like they are taking a stance on sexual content (and I get it, but why not make an announcement or something). I don't want FFXIV to become an online hookup game either but there are legitimate RP venues (some with amazing bard bands/full on plays etc) that put the age restriction purely to make sure that people know what type of environment they are going into. The game allows you to mark you venue as a tavern but a bar is an adult place and should be labeled as such. Seriously these 'bans' baffle me. Just come out and say what is and isn't acceptable.

I think it's more 18+ in the sexual sense that's the issue. You can RP a person getting drunk and having all kinds of alcohol and regardless of whether a minor is present, it's not that you're engaging in adult activity because, no alcohol is exchanged. When it comes to sexual content, it's different, because the arousal is still real and the content is still sexual in nature. And heck, characters getting drunk in a Teen rated game is not considered inappropriate, even if drinking itself is an adult activity.

After the initial error was cleared up where non-ERP venues got hit the only RP venues to be coming out (as far as I am aware) as being targeted by GM's have been ERP venues, so that seems to be the common denominator.

But yes, for sure, more RMT's need to be banned and I am 100% in support of more clarification, because ultimately we'll all do what we think is okay.

[BunniEclair]

Wait, so people putting their RP venues up, under everyone elses RMT content selling garbage, not abusing tags or anything are getting reprimanded but not the content sellers who are legitimately making side money off of SE's product with out regulation or censure.

Obviously the course is clear. Time to start reporting the RMT ads. Like full stop. Put the focus where its supposed to be.

Also I guess this is going to hurt the RP brothel business. Used to see this boldly proclaimed in PF often but it looks like they are taking a stance on sexual content (and I get it, but why not make an announcement or something). I don't want FFXIV to become an online hookup game either but there are legitimate RP venues (some with amazing bard bands/full on plays etc) that put the age restriction purely to make sure that people know what type of environment they are going into. The game allows you to mark you venue as a tavern but a bar is an adult place and should be labeled as such. Seriously these 'bans' baffle me. Just come out and say what is and isn't acceptable.

Gonna keep repeating this for the new people here: there isn’t a ban or attack on RP. The people claiming that there is are neglecting to include the fact that they put in-game links to their websites in PF that openly advertise offering ERP.

As far as we’re aware, having a nightclub or whatever be listed in PF as 18+ is fine for the reasons you described, such as drinks or whatever. I’m sorry to be such a stickler for this but it annoys me to no end we still get people rushing to defend the poor, oppressed RPers when there is obviously no issue with regular RP in the game. It is, in fact, actively encouraged through housing and character tags.

The reason sellers in PF don’t get taken down is because you can’t really prove they’re doing anything wrong. It’s not against the rules to offer services for gil. Because the sellers ask you to DM them on discord, there’s really no way to prove there’s any sort of real money transaction going on without the GMs crossing a very major boundary and privately messaging players outside of the game. Some may have individually been taken down because they weren’t smart about it- but those people aren’t going to come running to the forums like “I was trying to sell clears for money and the GMs gave me a strike on my account this is an ATTACK on ALL RAIDERS”. They just take the L and move on.

They’re still annoying, but if you’re wondering why those PFs don’t get taken down, that’s probably it.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

The 18+ tag isn't what is getting people banned. It is the content within the venue. Not sure what people aren't getting here. I do agree that they need to tackle these RMT ads as well, but it is slightly harder to prove. Report away though, I say.

Ahh. I read the title and the blurb of the original post but there were a ton of removed replies. Made it sound like RP ad posts were being targeted and reported. Just for that. I don't really want FF14 to be the game that's know for its thriving online bordellos but I think that SE should honestly just give it to us straight and not make us wonder where the line is. It should be plain for all to see.

And I want those content sellers gone. PF has been a joke since they took it over. New players dont even use it for actual roulettes anymore because its just an ad-spam wall but back in HW you would see it used for its real purpose all the time. But what players honestly looking for a quick pick up group can compete with all the fricking dishonest span that outs them right at the bottom? Once upon a time, PF was a godsend to DPS mains who didnt want to wait 10-20 mins on a que. Now its just useless. They need to police tag abuse (like blatant tag misuse, not mistakes) and make new tabs for static requests, and venue ads. With their own legit tabs, this would not be nearly the issue it is now, IMO. (I mean the adult/sex thing might still be but the PF misuse not so much).

[Shin96]

I feel like you've not got the point. I am confused where you're getting this from.

If anything you're find i have agreed that minors should be kept out of it. And that I agree if in this age rated game that if SE decided ERP venues should be kept out of PF I have been on board with that. And that they should find other methods. The only thing I've defended is private ERP between consenting adults. Whilst I am not bothered by people advertising, as I don't have to follow through on them, but of course the issue of minors comes up, by which point, I choose the option that puts reasonable steps to protect that.

But my point is, that won't stop these PF's going up if there's a monetary incentive.

Whether that is right or wrong is immaterial. Whether I find that right or wrong is immaterial. Whether SE forbids it is immaterial. What ends up mattering is what SE does about it (and as we can see, things SE forbids still remain in abundance)

It's not a defense nor do I advocate it. It's just the way it is. Heck if it's devious like the OP here where they try to "cheat the censor" so to speak in carefully worded advertisements they play semantics with knowing full well they advertise ERP services, then I am against that.

Good we agree on that front at least. Like I said, what consenting adults do = not my problem. And people will always try to make a profit from anything, the incentive is... irrelevant. Such is not my concern, I'm not an expert on capitalism. As for ERP, I can understand that some people are longing for intimate relationships especially during lockdown. It's only when people disregard the well-being of vulnerable groups when I have a problem. Anyway, the future will show how this topic will be covered overall.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

Gonna keep repeating this for the new people here: there isn’t a ban or attack on RP. The people claiming that there is are neglecting to include the fact that they put in-game links to their websites in PF that openly advertise offering ERP.

As far as we’re aware, having a nightclub or whatever be listed in PF as 18+ is fine for the reasons you described, such as drinks or whatever. I’m sorry to be such a stickler for this but it annoys me to no end we still get people rushing to defend the poor, oppressed RPers when there is obviously no issue with regular RP in the game. It is, in fact, actively encouraged through housing and character tags.

The reason sellers in PF don’t get taken down is because you can’t really prove they’re doing anything wrong. It’s not against the rules to offer services for gil. Because the sellers ask you to DM them on discord, there’s really no way to prove there’s any sort of real money transaction going on without the GMs crossing a very major boundary and privately messaging players outside of the game. Some may have individually been taken down because they weren’t smart about it- but those people aren’t going to come running to the forums like “I was trying to sell clears for money and the GMs gave me a strike on my account this is an ATTACK on ALL RAIDERS”. They just take the L and move on.

They’re still annoying, but if you’re wondering why those PFs don’t get taken down, that’s probably it.

Im not defending the poor RPers more that I'm mad that they are actually policing PF for sexual content but not for the content that has been making it (PF) useless since two expacs ago. The post was misleading and a bunch of posts at the begining have been deleted so i missed out on the meat of the argument i think.

I understand that RMT cant be proven but the fact that they are blatantly using tags that put their crap at the top of the list that have nothing to do with said tag CAN be policed and should be. There's no excuse to open PF and see 10+ listings for content selling all under the EX Roulette tag. That should not be allowed any more than outside solicitations for sex (or anything else for that matter--no solicitation for offsite content should generally be advertised, mostly just for security reasons).

[Vahlnir]

Ahh. I read the title and the blurb of the original post but there were a ton of removed replies. Made it sound like RP ad posts were being targeted and reported. Just for that. I don't really want FF14 to be the game that's know for its thriving online bordellos but I think that SE should honestly just give it to us straight and not make us wonder where the line is. It should be plain for all to see.

I think it's pretty obvious where the line is. SE has decided to draw that line at ERP being openly advertised in game, hence the bans. Can't get more obvious than that.

[LianaThorne]

Im not defending the poor RPers more that I'm mad that they are actually policing PF for sexual content but not for the content that has been making it (PF) useless since two expacs ago. The post was misleading and a bunch of posts at the begining have been deleted so i missed out on the meat of the argument i think.

I understand that RMT cant be proven but the fact that they are blatantly using tags that put their crap at the top of the list that have nothing to do with said tag CAN be policed and should be. There's no excuse to open PF and see 10+ listings for content selling all under the EX Roulette tag. That should not be allowed any more than outside solicitations for sex (or anything else for that matter--no solicitation for offsite content should generally be advertised, mostly just for security reasons).

It is. They do ban people. The issue is keeping them out of the game permanently because not many companies will resort to full blown permanent bans unless it's an extreme situation and even they can be bypassed with time and effort. They can IP ban them all day but those can be bypassed with VPNs. So, they get banned and come back or dodge a ban at all because no one reported them or there isn't enough evidence. I would assume the not enough evidence scenario is how some have survived months or years. In a nutshell though, SE is basically fighting whales that have money to blow on new accounts in the event of a ban at any time because of how much they do make in the game. xD

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

It is. They do ban people. The issue is keeping them out of the game permanently because not many companies will resort to full blown permanent bans unless it's an extreme situation and even they can be bypassed with time and effort. They can IP ban them all day but those can be bypassed with VPNs. So, they get banned and come back or dodge a ban at all because no one reported them or there isn't enough evidence. I would assume the not enough evidence scenario is how some have survived months or years. In a nutshell though, SE is basically fighting whales that have money to blow on new accounts in the event of a ban at any time because of how much they do make in the game. xD

Thats fine. They should make PF bans more than account bans. I mentioned this before. And make it policeable by the players like the chat report RMT function. Does it get rid of it? No. Does it help keep it down, certainly. If they gave us the ability to just report PF spam (and issue bans to only PF, where the affected person could still play but not use PF for x amount of time depending on regularity/severity) AND ad legit tags for statics and RP venues we'd see a vastly cleaned up PF.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

I think it's pretty obvious where the line is. SE has decided to draw that line at ERP being openly advertised in game, hence the bans. Can't get more obvious than that.

But people can advertise real-life feet pics for actual money (I've seen this one multiple times) and they're fine. I get the ban on solicitations for sexual/explicit content but then people ask for the above or for people to message or meet on platforms outside of the game so they can make money off SE and thats totally ok.

They may have drawn a line but it needs to be more of a circle. You cant advertise erp, because explicit content, against ToS (again, not an issue) but you absolutely CAN misuse tags for whatever you're selling, real or not, and even ask for players to use or meet in outside apps or programs and its totally ok even though it can effectively harm players by potentially compromising accounts.

Again, I can see the line but I'm just baffled that this is being policed and the other forms of misuse continue to the point where PF has become practically useless. Let's take the opportunity to clean up the whole thing and not just one small part of it.

[Vahlnir]

But people can advertise real-life feet pics for actual money (I've seen this one multiple times) and they're fine. I get the ban on solicitations for sexual/explicit content but then people ask for the above or for people to message or meet on platforms outside of the game so they can make money off SE and thats totally ok.

They may have drawn a line but it needs to be more of a circle. You cant advertise erp, because explicit content, against ToS (again, not an issue) but you absolutely CAN misuse tags for whatever you're selling, real or not, and even ask for players to use or meet in outside apps or programs and its totally ok even though it can effectively harm players by potentially compromising accounts.

Again, I can see the line but I'm just baffled that this is being policed and the other forms of misuse continue to the point where PF has become practically useless. Let's take the opportunity to clean up the whole thing and not just one small part of it.

Other things should get as much, if not more policing than this. I agree with that. But they did have to start somewhere, and the ERP thing has more potential legal ramifications for the company itself compared to some random person selling feet pics or a raid clear for cash. I'm not saying that those shouldn't be addressed though, because they most certainly should.