RP Party finders being reported AGAIN without so much as a reason.

[NanaWiloh]

The legality does go beyond the RP issue, however. This just happens to be one aspect of it. Digital media is weirdly unique in that it frequently tries to claim we don't own what we've purchased and can subsequently be taken away for whatever reason with the contracts coming AFTER sales and commonly having no refund policies because once something like a game key is used, that's pretty much it for it unlike trading discs around in the olden times. There are times where the choice of finding another game will be made for you, be it with closures or unexpected bans, and with that, an unlikelihood you'll get your character data or compensation for game buys/subs/DLC/etc..

To put it another way, it'd be like buying a car and one night the dealer decides they no longer want that model on the road because they want to put out something else. You wake up and it's gone. You didn't miss payments. It wasn't recalled for some mechanical defect. They just take it away. Some might argue this doesn't happen precisely because it is a physical good (and ignoring the existence of repo men), but let's consider other shady practices like planned obsolescence or Apple slinging an update that almost vaporized the batteries of older phones. There are marked efforts going on to deter our ownership of things, or things we can do with them once they are ours, including but not limited to tamper-proofing or proprietary parts. Justifications frequently flirt with safety arguments, too. Others try to cite anti-piracy. In the end, it usually boils down to corporations trying to pass themselves off as the victims and the user experience must suffer to make them feel better.

Of course, individually we should never need a lawyer to play a video game. The real problem is too many people have been sleeping on digital consumer rights for too long and tend to default to the conclusion that ToS are immutable law. It also doesn't help these same corps can legally bully an individual who doesn't have their own immense financial backing or expertise. That's where the collective collaboration comes in through things like class action suits, or the alternative political channels. But as is, people being banned for RP here and there won't make waves. That's why I mentioned Nintendo and Sony's pending plans as alternative abuses of the consumer's access to things they paid for. Those will affect far more people, and even if it's not personally you today, someday with some other "service" it will be.

This game is a like a book, just cause you buy a book does not mean you can go re-publish it. Same goes for this game just cause you bought the game does not mean you can host your own server for it. Hate to be a bearer of bad news as well but most of the coding that drives this games world exists on SE servers. We as players have no legal ownership or right to that code its SE's property. If you did manage to win a court case the only thing you would be awarded ownership of is whats on your machine right now. If you ran the game without the code present on SE server it would be a giant sandbox world with near lifeless NPC;s and many non functioning and missing features. To be blunt you would have to write all the missing code yourself, create your own database and aquire servers to house it all...have fun with that. No court is going to hand ownership of a companies property over simply cause customers got a burr in their saddle. Lets also remember this is not single player game that is designed to run without further intervention from its creator.

[LisSquid]

I've just had a little thought:
If erp venues hide their erotic nature behind the same wording as just a little cafe or nightclub, isn't it much more likely to force people/minors to engage, even momentarily, with themes they didn't want to be apart of?

This isn't a judgment of they should or shouldn't. That's just going to be the reality when venues no longer post carrds or themes in their listing.

[Shin96]

I've just had a little thought:
If erp venues hide their erotic nature behind the same wording as just a little cafe or nightclub, isn't it much more likely to force people/minors to engage, even momentarily, with themes they didn't want to be apart of?

This isn't a judgment of they should or shouldn't. That's just going to be the reality when venues no longer post carrds or themes in their listing.

RP is part of the game just as much any anything else in this game. Going by your logic, you'd have to ban RP in general to avoid minors from participating. This is more about ERP and its predatory nature accessible to the whole public, PF included. Of course all of this is possible by hosting a café or nightclub, but it's not happening under the banner of sexual interactions. There is the saying: "I told you so". If someone takes advantage of a minor by RP venues, it's completly out of power and you'd have to demolish all social aspects of FFXIV to avoid this. Some things cannot be prevented, but if possible, it should be done.

[LisSquid]

RP is part of the game just as much any anything else in this game. Going by your logic, you'd have to ban RP in general to avoid minors from participating. This is more about ERP and its predatory nature accessible to the whole public, DF included. Of course all of this is possible by hosting a café or nightclub, but it's not happening under the banner of sexual interactions. There is the saying: "I told you so". If someone takes advantage of a minor by RP venues, it's completly out of power and you'd have to demolish all social aspects of FFXIV to avoid this. Some things cannot be prevented, but if possible, it should be done.

I wasn't entirely clear with my list. As it was, mature themed venues advertised themselves as such. There was no question about what happened there or what to expect. With GMs cracking down on these obvious advertisements, more venues will adjust wording to circumvent that.

We saw that with OPs listing having erp being within the carrd. These venues are seeking to get around the ban, and the logical conclusion is that brothels and erotic bathhouses will no longer be all obvious on the face as before with listings indistinguishable from their sfw counterparts.

This will not ever stop erp venues from advertising in pf, but make it harder to distinguish between the two. Is it really a cafe or a saucy cafe? Is it a nightclub or a strip club?

What happens when you cannot simply distinguish an erp venue from the PF alone? That leaves all rp listings vulnerable.

I don't have a solution for this, but just an observation from this very thing happening on another game I used to play.

[Shin96]

I wasn't entirely clear with my list. As it was, mature themed venues advertised themselves as such. There was no question about what happened there or what to expect. With GMs cracking down on these obvious advertisements, more venues will adjust wording to circumvent that.

It will happen definitely. But the question is why they're so desperate to circumvent this issue, instead of doing it privately. Why does it need to be a public thing?

We saw that with OPs listing having erp being within the carrd. These venues are seeking to get around the ban, and the logical conclusion is that brothels and erotic bathhouses will no longer be all obvious on the face as before with listings indistinguishable from their sfw counterparts.

If they have to be deceptive about their intentions then they will receive even less sympathy from the community. Chances are, Square Enix doesn't approve of them and that's why they're being dealt with recently.

This will not ever stop erp venues from advertising in pf, but make it harder to distinguish between the two. Is it really a cafe or a saucy cafe? Is it a nightclub or a strip club?

That's true, however as I said, that's RP and there is nothing that can be done to prevent that. It happened before ERP became an issue. This is about them offering a venue where no one will know a thing if something happens.

What happens when you cannot simply distinguish an erp venue from the PF alone? That leaves all rp listings vulnerable.

It does not. That's assuming everyone that does RP is a predator and that's unlikely. But for ERP players, they already fully acknowledge that there is no age verification, therefore they disregard that fact because their feelings are more important. I trust RP players far more than ERP players that have shown that they don't care how old their opposite partner is. That and they openly recruit on PF. Additionally, it's not like it will lure more of them into the game. If anything this is a warning by Square Enix and tells you to do it privately.

I don't have a solution for this, but just an observation from this very thing happening on another game I used to play.

The solution is to continue with removing public ERP venues. Say I was an ERP player, I would totally understand why Square Enix would go out of their way to make it safer for minors. This has to do with ego, and they clearly think they're more important than the safety of people far younger than them. Such is my impression given what I read thus far.

[LisSquid]

It will happen definitely. But the question is why they're so desperate to circumvent this issue, instead of doing it privately. Why does it need to be a public thing?



If they have to be deceptive about their intentions then they will receive even less sympathy from the community. Chances are, Square Enix doesn't approve of them and that's why they're being dealt with recently.



That's true, however as I said, that's RP and there is nothing that can be done to prevent that. It happened before ERP became an issue. This is about them offering a venue where no one will know a thing if something happens.



It does not. That's assuming everyone that does RP is a predator and that's unlikely. But for ERP players, they already fully acknowledge that there is no age verification, therefore they disregard that fact because their feelings are more important. I trust RP players far more than ERP players that have shown that they don't care how old their opposite partner is. That and they openly recruit on PF.



The solution is to continue with removing public ERP venues. Say I was an ERP player, I would totally understand why Square Enix would go out of their way to make it safer for minors. This has to do with ego, and they clearly think they're more important than the safety of people far younger than them. Such is my impression given what I read thus far.

We are simply saying the same thing in different ways. I'm just musing over, perhaps less than a year from now, I'm going to check out a venue that's as benign as a bakery and be greeted at the door by a pantless au'ra.

The ego is there, and as history shows within other games that it's going to be a PF fixture forever. Like I said, I don't have a solution to truly tackle removing erp from the other rp listings. I just know it's going to be very annoying to find things to do on the weekend.

[Shin96]

We are simply saying the same thing in different ways. I'm just musing over, perhaps less than a year from now, I'm going to check out a venue that's as benign as a bakery and be greeted at the door by a pantless au'ra.

The ego is there, and as history shows within other games that it's going to be a PF fixture forever. Like I said, I don't have a solution to truly tackle removing erp from the other rp listings. I just know it's going to be very annoying to find things to do on the weekend.

Your point is that by removing the ERP tag or cards, they will find other ways to be creative. I get that. But if someone was to step out of line in Roleplay, it would be extremely obvious and it would be 100% reported by Roleplayers since it's violating the description. In ERP that is not a given. It's expected.

I'm not against ERP by itself. I'm against them making it a public thing when it doesn't need to be. I do not need or want to be lectured about the intricacies of ERP or its variations. Just keep it to yourself and we're fine.

[LisSquid]

Your point is that by removing the ERP tag or cards, they will find other ways to be creative. I get that. But if someone was to step out of line in Roleplay, it would be extremely obvious and it would be 100% reported by Roleplayers since it's violating the description. In ERP that is not a given. It's expected.

I'm not against ERP by itself. I'm against them making it a public thing when it doesn't need to be. I do not need or want to be lectured about the intricacies of ERP or its variations. Just keep it to yourself and we're fine.

I guess what I'm saying is that by tagging it appropriately as mature/brothel/etc I knew it wasn't going to be my thing. I'm also well aware of how erpers can breach a lot of lines. I RP as a sexless doll for a reason, though it sometimes does not deter some rather.. uh.. determined and disturbingly creative people. The whisper about the power drill still haunts me. Some stop that train of thought and end up wanting to know more about her, and it ends up fine and fluffy.

I don't see many of these places changing operations, just perhaps being more descreet with their pubic appearances (which is a win win? Time will tell, really.)

[Shin96]

I guess what I'm saying is that by tagging it appropriately as mature/brothel/etc I knew it wasn't going to be my thing. I'm also well aware of how erpers can breach a lot of lines. I RP as a sexless doll for a reason, though it sometimes does not deter some rather.. uh.. determined and disturbingly creative people. The whisper about the power drill still haunts me. Some stop that train of thought and end up wanting to know more about her, and it ends up fine and fluffy.

I don't see many of these places changing operations, just perhaps being more descreet with their pubic appearances (which is a win win? Time will tell, really.)

We'll see indeed. But one thing I can give you props for: Bloodborne is an awesome game. Definitely got good taste in gaming that's for sure.

[Saefinn]

Your point is that by removing the ERP tag or cards, they will find other ways to be creative. I get that. But if someone was to step out of line in Roleplay, it would be extremely obvious and it would be 100% reported by Roleplayers since it's violating the description. In ERP that is not a given. It's expected.

I'm not against ERP by itself. I'm against them making it a public thing when it doesn't need to be. I do not need or want to be lectured about the intricacies of ERP or its variations. Just keep it to yourself and we're fine.

I mean, whilst some might, some might just cut their losses and leave, some might end up being put off by RP in this game in general thinking this is what RP is in FFXIV or that the FFXIV RP community has gone to pot. I would much prefer these venues to be transparent because let's say hypothetically I'm looking for RP and I am not as clued up as I am now with regards to FFXIV RP, and I see loads advertised in PF, I go "great that sounds like fun" but all I keep turning up to are sexual themed RP's that were hidden behind non-sexual advertisements because they might be 80% ERP advertisements, I'm gonna end up thinking this is all there is.

Heck, even as somebody more savvy about where to get the RP I'm looking for, if I see an RP advertised, then yes, I'll want to get what I see advertised.

It's why I am disappointed in the OP for not being transparent, they clearly tried to be deceptive. It's become more and more obvious ERP advertisements in the PF are the issue, put them up at your own risk, argue your point against this being an offense if you must or take your advertisements out of game and into Discord and other means, but being deceptive about your intentions ends up being damaging to the greater RP community. But the OP's venue charged gil and that's an incentive to try and reach as many people as possible, this is why I really don't like gil as an incentive. I realise there's people who are totally cool with it or even find it immersive, but the flip side is it can means the RP or ERP can be treated as a means to an end.