I give up, the bots win AKA: My flight is scheduled for departure

[Melichoir]

I have no problems restarting at zero gil if thats what it took to eliminate bots and cheaters.

I want to play against REAL people, if you pvp, do you prefer bots or people? seriously. its never been about cornering teh market or greed. I want the same playing field for everyone, not a job where to sell anything, I need to stand on the market 24/7 because thats the only way to sell when the bots are there.

not sure why the bot "supporters" are always saying its about greed, when the ones they are supporting are the greedy ones, not only in game, but for real currency as well.

that seems to be teh crux of most positions against people who dislike bots, "its okay for bots to be greedy, curse the real players and crafters, they deserve it"

Youre misunderstanding the point. It's not about "Oh bots fine, but greedy people? no." The issues are:

- Claiming you cant make any money on the MB cause of bots.
- Refusing to look at bots in the context of the game and it's internal economy, for good and bad
- Actually discussing real issues & solutions instead of just hyper-focus on bots and nonsense like "SE just lazy; SE cares more for bots; game is stupid"
- Suggesting that everything would be hunky-dory if bots didnt exist

Ive yet to suggest that botting is only good but players making money is bad. Ive suggested that bots probably play a bigger part in the in-game economy than many here would give credit for. That alone complicates the issue of completely wiping them out. Then there is this idea that solely a player driven MB would be 100% healthy and fair. If a system can be gamed, then someone will game it for their own advantage. Million plus players, you dont think that someone with the time and gil wont screw with the MB to everyone's detriment?

And I point out greed because that part is often just glossed over. The complaint of a few here was complaining about how bots prevent them from making money. It is very clear their issue with bots is profit based, not fairness. And frankly, what do you think happens when you wipe out a supplier on the MB? That it just stays empty? No, those with the gil and means will take over that slot. And they will do so for profit purposes. There is nothing wrong with that, but dont pretend that isnt the driving factor. Rather have people straight up say "Yeah, I want more gil and I feel my chances improve with less bots."

Lastly, how often are people being honest and acknowledging that there is a strong likelyhood a part of their wealth came from gil buyers and bots? Wealth that likely eased some of your pains when it came to leveling, or supplying yourself with mats for crafting, or completing other content. Whether we like it or not, I would bet that a large enough chunk of the gil in the economy currently was generated by bots, not players. Gil that gave people buying and selling power.


Again, if we want to tackle the issue of bots, we need to be looking at the whole picture, good and bad. So long as people behave like there are no benefits on the economy at large from bots, we wont get to the root of the issue nor will we be able to come up with reasonable solutions. Solutions SE might adopt if it proves more fruitful than the current model.

[Jijifli]

The crux of these discussions at times boils down to "Bots are making it hard for me to dominate the MB." It's not about "making the MB fair and workable for everyone", but rather eliminating the competition so that those already in a position to take over the Bot's share of the market can do so with ease and increase dominance. I doubt these threads would occur if bot activity was greatly limited to items and the like below level 30.

I'm just gonna mention here, some stuff is such as shards, and somewhat by extension, crystals since you don't even need the expac for a bot to farm/sell those.

I also refuse to buy them and farm my own, painfully, because I'm not sick and tired of bots. I don't technically need the market. I got plenty of gil, and can be 10% self sufficient with everything. My problem is how my brain responds to seeing people break rules, and have zip happen. I've always been someone that tries to care about a rule, and when I see others just disregard it and not receive any punishment, it irks me. I end up thinking to myself "Why am I trying to follow them, if others just aren't and aren't punished for it?"

I want the bots gone because there is no argument to be made that they aren't breaking the ToS that I have to comply with. Every time I open my list. player search, and see the same bots gathering the same garbage for the past 8 month despite constant reports, I am literally being told by Square Enix to just do it myself, because what's gonna happen to me? Clearly it's acceptable.

[Melichoir]

I'm just gonna mention here, some stuff is such as shards, and somewhat by extension, crystals since you don't even need the expac for a bot to farm/sell those.

I also refuse to buy them and farm my own, painfully, because I'm not sick and tired of bots. I don't technically need the market. I got plenty of gil, and can be 10% self sufficient with everything. My problem is how my brain responds to seeing people break rules, and have zip happen. I've always been someone that tries to care about a rule, and when I see others just disregard it and not receive any punishment, it irks me. I end up thinking to myself "Why am I trying to follow them, if others just aren't and aren't punished for it?"

I want the bots gone because there is no argument to be made that they aren't breaking the ToS that I have to comply with. Every time I open my list. player search, and see the same bots gathering the same garbage for the past 8 month despite constant reports, I am literally being told by Square Enix to just do it myself, because what's gonna happen to me? Clearly it's acceptable.

There are already obvious instances of the ToS being broken yet the dev team (and SE) turn a blind eye to it. Parsers are the prime example of this. SE doesnt get overzealous with banning people using a parser because parsers help players track performance, improvement, and damage output for harder content like savages. Without them, I would surmise that the savage raid scene would probably be smaller, possibly more elitist in nature. That isnt good for the game in the big picture.

The simple fact is, as you and others have stated, that it is incredibly easy to find these bots and report them, but for some reason SE doesnt really act to hard on these. SE isnt alone in this stance either as virtually every MMO on the market has the same problem. You can argue that SE gets their cut with subs or other aspects, but SE could clearly force these bot accounts (and all accounts for that matter) to purchase the game and a sub, then immediately ban those accounts. That would rip off the people running hte bot rings on the other end. Keep doing it enough and it no longer becomes cost effective to do this. Problem solved for SE! That or any other number of things SE can do on the cheap that would solve the bot problem.

So "Why does SE allow this, to some extent?". Answer that and we can then discuss better ways of getting rid of bots while making it a model that SE would adopt. I highly suspect that SE isnt 'lazy'. Thats a throw away answer thats low effort. There is obviously something SE knows about how bots interact with the game that is clearly beneficial to SE. And of course, they will not outright state that its beneficial unless you get players straight up say "Thats not fair, I want to be able to bot too."

[KageTokage]

I'm more inclined to chalk it up to genuine incompetence when some major exploits like the Ungarmax glitch went untouched for upwards of a month strictly due to miscommunication between the English and JP teams.

The fact that there is no English branch of the STF means that all and any reports made against cheaters in general are having to be translated then relayed to their horribly understaffed JP team which honestly makes me question how many of the reports are even reaching them in the first place.

[Mirhd]

Got my sister to play FFXIV again after she tried it briefly a few years ago. Guess what we just saw at the very same NPC you talk to as part of the ARR MSQ? Multiple bot parties of BM lalafels. Guess they got tired of the traditional derplander.

[ItMe]

the Ungarmax glitch went untouched for upwards of a month

The... what now?

[Mirhd]

The... what now?

The Limit Break your grand company trainees use when you're in a dungeon with them. There was an exploit that allowed you to use it in REGULAR dungeons... People were using it to cheese trials and such.

[ItMe]

The Limit Break your grand company trainees use when you're in a dungeon with them. There was an exploit that allowed you to use it in REGULAR dungeons... People were using it to cheese trials and such.

Ooooh, I heard about this.
Thanks for the reply.
Why is it called the ungarmax glitch?

[Mirhd]

Ooooh, I heard about this.
Thanks for the reply.
Why is it called the ungarmax glitch?

Ah, it's just the name of the LB.

[ItMe]

Ah, it's just the name of the LB.

Hahahahaha well that explains that~
Thanks.