Delubrum Reginae Savage groups - way too exclusive and toxic

[MarniDawg]

I feel like this person is trolling at this point. Second attempt at this same topic.

I will say pretty much what I did in the other one. Nothing is stopping them from starting their own group in the game. *shrugs*

[Vahlnir]

I feel that they should make it a little more accessible, but leave the difficulty of this content as is. Like, being able to queue for it and such as you can with normal DR, but maybe with some sort of daily/weekly lockout? Idk. I just think this is where DR Savage and BA have fallen a bit flat. They should be accessible, but still just as punishing to run. I think most would be willing to grind to upgrade their gear for both if they could get in a little easier, and then eventually move on to clear. And no, I don't believe that we should need Discord to access these sort of things. After the fact? Sure, I get it. If I could get in pretty easily and then have someone request that I join Discord I'd be okay with that. But not before. I guess my overall point is that the hardest part shouldn't be getting in. It should be actually running the instance.

[Canadane]

How many newly-released savage-level duties have you cleared without using any third party applications?

I have done this it's actually not terrible at all if you go in at day 1. No voip, just good old raidin'.
But with 48 people management is much more difficult.

To Saranade, while before we had the tools to make this easier people got such things done in games, that doesn't mean we shouldn't use the tools we have now.

[Maltothoris]

There are a few other issues as well. Mainly the time and fragment investment and the incentive of rewards.

If you're low on the required fragments and essences, that means you either have to spend time farming them or spend money getting and it's rng whether or not you get what you need, ala getting 15 potions and only 2 reraisers.

Then in terms of rewards, it's pretty lackluster. The only one that's worth it is the mount you get from your first clear. The minion is a guaranteed drop and its price is really low compared to the absolute virtue minion. Also, the rest of the runner secrets you get in here only allows for a dyable version of the law's order gear.

Again though, the biggest obstacle for a more free-form pug is getting 47 other people together, making sure people have the required actions for the fights and the !v1 duel (dispel, reflect, steelsting, spellforge, aethershield) a fair amount of reraisers and a fair amounts of lost arise(which still only have 10-15 percent chance of raising someone).

Maybe, if they allowed actions and fragments to be more easily obtained, it would do wonders for bozja, plus mainly adding some more incentives if they don't do that.

[Ariel_Valmont]

I feel that they should make it a little more accessible, but leave the difficulty of this content as is. Like, being able to queue for it and such as you can with normal DR, but maybe with some sort of daily/weekly lockout? Idk. I just think this is where DR Savage and BA have fallen a bit flat. They should be accessible, but still just as punishing to run. I think most would be willing to grind to upgrade their gear for both if they could get in a little easier, and then eventually move on to clear. And no, I don't believe that we should need Discord to access these sort of things. After the fact? Sure, I get it. If I could get in pretty easily and then have someone request that I join Discord I'd be okay with that. But not before. I guess my overall point is that the hardest part shouldn't be getting in. It should be actually running the instance.

Complete agreement here.

[Callinon]

It was not that long ago Discord didn't exist and i played on a JPN only server on XI and we would put together 48 mans for various high tier content. I think you are missing the point.

I think you'll agree that DR Savage is just a tad more complicated than Dynamis farming?

[DoH]

Farming the required actions for DRS wasn't that bad... I spent several hours over a few days farming fragments / clusters and that's lasted me through the entire DRS prog and then well over 10 clears of the dungeon. Once you figure out the fights you really only need 1 reraiser per run generally (the one you pop at the beginning "just to be safe").

[Saefinn]

It was not that long ago Discord didn't exist and i played on a JPN only server on XI and we would put together 48 mans for various high tier content. I think you are missing the point.

Before Discord existed it was Ventrilo or Teamspeak and before that it was probably something else. Before Discord was a thing, my FC had an Enjnn site and subscription, which gave us a Teamspeak server. My SW:TOR guild also heavily used Teamspeak.

FFXI is also not a great example for a couple of reasons. One, it was flawed, whilst you could make it work, you're talking about a game where you'd stand in Valkurm Dunes shouting for three hours to get a levelling party, sure you could also say "you didn't need Duty Finder in FFXI because we could do EXP parties without it", but being honest, if the options were there then that's what'd people prefer to use because it cuts out some of the more painful limitations of FFXI. And two, FFXI was a much slower paced game, which in a way worked to its advantage because there was a lot more room to type things out into chat and made for more social experiences playing the game too when it comes to randos. But meant you'd have more time to communicate without need for voice. FFXIV is a lot more reactive and a lot more fast paced and because people are working on rotations and mechanics, there's no space to type anything out. It's why levelling dungeons are much less social than levelling parties of FFXI. So voice ends up compensating for that.

And talking of the JP Experience. If you were in a JP party miscommunication was more likely. One example was I had to AFK for 10 minutes, I tried to use the autotranslate system to communicate this. When I came back my replacement just arrived, I grabbed a Romaji Japanese dictionary (because I happen to have one) and tried to use that to write very bad Japanese and found out they thought I had to leave and were very apologetic that they misunderstood.

So I'm not sure it's a great example. Whilst yes, you could do content without these tools, but why make an experience painful when you have the tools to not make it so? Heck some people used voice options for FFXI, but was less common because technology wasn't where it is now.


As far as toxicity goes, i think that's where there is fair complaint, but honestly I'm not sure of the best way to address that. I mean the devs have already come out said using stuff like Discord doesn't constitute as using third party tools. And it's not a Discord problem, that's a people problem and it's not like the GM's can moderate Discord. Nor can they consider Discord a misuse.

[Shinklet]

loling @ the people who aren't willing to put in the effort from atop my cerberus.

You're free to tagalong whenever you want, it's a 4 seater.

[Varak_Isandel]

Raid/party leaders wanting everyone to put in some modicum of effort into content isn't "elitist and toxic", it's the barest minimum and a courtesy. Organizing content via voice call using applications like Discord allows for quick and efficient communication as well as organization rather than having to scour the whole of a Data Center to play Recruitment Simulator (Ultimate).

Having cleared with multiple groups so far, I'd say my experience have been positive seeing that everyone is supportive and can be held accountable for their roles in the raids. I'm sorry to say this, but it might just be your own personal experience that's negative.