Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[SwordswornFox]

I would have to point out the quite obvious difference between someone clearly unfamiliar with a job and someone who merely forgot something, the dancer in that example was clearly unfamiliar and didn’t know you could do that, if that person merely forgot they would have used the dance, though preferably on another dancer just so we can see some people foam xD

But if someone is unfamiliar with a job, reminding them of a very useful mechanic on their class is helpful. Both for their development as a player and making what ever group content you're in with them a little a bit smoother.

That's not 'tryhard,' that's wanting a group run to be enjoyable for all.

[Mahoukenshi]

So legit question. At what point is someone no longer considered "unfamiliar"? Im not calling anyone names, im not trying to judge anyone. Im curious how long someone gets to claim that.

This is actually an interesting question. Using myself as an example: I have played since early-mid 5.0 and took a break after 5.2 until beginning of 2021. I consider myself unfamilar with jobs I only played in non-current content (ignoring Alliance Raids or optional group content which I don't do in general). I leveled on this Viera WHM to 80 exclusively with MSQ roulette and Pixie tribe and tried it twice or so with Trusts, yet as a clear non-healer "main", I'm certainly not familar with the job/role as with other jobs I had normally taken for MSQ-related duties. Likewise with dungeons/trials: Unless roulette gives me a few leveling dungeons frequently or I'm leveling Trusts, I'm not familar with them as I would only know them from my single story run.

Like: I did Ala Mhigo and Royal Menagerie yesterday on my 3rd character and looked up stuff to be safe. End of the story: I died during the last battle and in the trial more than once, even though it didn't seem to be that bad from the (video) guides.

TL;DR: I'd consider someone familar if they played their role frequently in the content they are interested in (obviously, the better if it were content that "matters"). Ironically, based on the partly horrid experiences posted here, this seems to be not true at all XD.

[Artemiz]

I would have to point out the quite obvious difference between someone clearly unfamiliar with a job and someone who merely forgot something, the dancer in that example was clearly unfamiliar and didn’t know you could do that, if that person merely forgot they would have used the dance, though preferably on another dancer just so we can see some people foam xD

This argument seems to be rumbling along again so as someone who has spent over 20 years teaching practical skills in the work place I just want to chip in with a few points.

There are three fundamental reasons why a person makes a mistake or shows incorrect behavior. They are knowledge, skill or attitude. In order to correct that behavior you simple apply a process of elimination. The problem here is the dancer is guilty of poor behavior, this is the root cause but in the quote you seem to think it's a knowledge issue.

The reason I write off knowledge is given the confrontation as described in this thread her knowledge was pointed out, she replied it didn't work in that particular instance. This is incorrect but also confirms she knew about the ability and her knowledge was corrected, she still didn't use it until later. It's not a knowledge issue.

Is it a skill issue then? Considering all she has to do is select a party member and click a button I'm going to say no. It is simply not conceivable that a player can make it all the way to level 80 and not be skillful enough to press an ability at the start of a dungeon run. I don't know how low you are prepared to set the bar of competence but suggesting this is too difficult in a level 80 instance is setting a bar so low it's practically in the earths mantle. It is perfectly reasonable to assume her skill level was, or should be high enough to achieve this task.

Attitude then? yeah, it's almost always attitude. The dancer was putting in too little effort to press a button, she couldn't be bothered. Whether you think that's a problem depends on your perspective but in any team event there is always an element of social responsibility. The people you are arguing with are not throwing insults around, that's all you, they are not demanding high levels of competence, just asking for basic competence.

The only reason this behavior happens is because of the duty finder, show up to any arranged events with such low standards for yourself and you wont get invited back, do it enough and you will get a reputation and struggle to find groups. It's not unreasonable or "tryhard" to expect people to have at least put in the most basic levels of effort in group content, expecting everyone else to carry you because you just can't be arsed is just as toxic and unproductive as being the "tryhard" you think you're fighting in this thread but actually, given the tone of the people replying to you, is just in your head. They exist in the game, sure, but not in this discussion.

[Ralph2449]

There are three fundamental reasons why a person makes a mistake or shows incorrect behavior. They are knowledge, skill or attitude. In order to correct that behavior you simple apply a process of elimination.

Who exactly are you to go around telling people what is the "correct" behavior and what isnt? in an online VIDEO GAME and in content that doesnt even require the dancer to do any of this no less.

The very fact that you use terms like "incorrect/correct behavior" implies you are the authority on what is correct and what isnt and you try to force your beliefs on others because god forbid someone deviates from your "correct behavior" guidelines, in a bloody online video game, I honestly feel bad for the employees that have to deal with people who tell others what is "correct" and telling themselves they are helping while in reality they simply force their possibly close minded beliefs on others because they ve been given the power to.

Based on the description and that fact that person told the tryhard to stop talking to them clearly suggest that person was overwhelmed for any number of reasons like social anxiety or pressure to do something they are not familiar/comfortable with, but man I must be a genius for realizing that and letting such people be instead of trying to force them to follow my standards and beliefs because they are "incorrect"......

[Awha]

End of the day this is why I often just leave groups like I did with the healer that did not know what sprint was. Not worth my time personally, Instead of trying to educate or info.

[SturmChurro]

Based on the description and that fact that person told the tryhard to stop talking to them clearly suggest that person was overwhelmed for any number of reasons like social anxiety or pressure to do something they are not familiar/comfortable with, but man I must be a genius for realizing that and letting such people be instead of trying to force them to follow my standards and beliefs because they are "incorrect"......

Wait - isn't this about a DNC not partnering someone?

[Ralph2449]

End of the day this is why I often just leave groups like I did with the healer that did not know what sprint was. Not worth my time personally

OH NO!!!!
Can you imagine having to finish a dungeon without sprint?!?!?!?!!? I honestly cannot imagine a worst fate D:

Man this threads is all kinds of funny but not for the reasons you think.

[Awha]

Come on homie you from WoW time is money friend.

[Artemiz]

Who exactly are you to go around telling people what is the "correct" behavior and what isnt? in an online VIDEO GAME and in content that doesnt even require the dancer to do any of this no less.

The very fact that you use terms like "incorrect/correct behavior" implies you are the authority on what is correct and what isnt and you try to force your beliefs on others because god forbid someone deviates from your "correct behavior" guidelines, in a bloody online video game, I honestly feel bad for the employees that have to deal with people who tell others what is "correct" and telling themselves they are helping while in reality they simply force their possibly close minded beliefs on others because they ve been given the power to.

Based on the description and that fact that person told the tryhard to stop talking to them clearly suggest that person was overwhelmed for any number of reasons like social anxiety or pressure to do something they are not familiar/comfortable with, but man I must be a genius for realizing that and letting such people be instead of trying to force them to follow my standards and beliefs because they are "incorrect"......

The reason I use terms like "behavior" is because I'm trained and qualified in instruction and it's the technical term we use when teaching practical skills. A video game is a practical skill so I gave an opinion from the viewpoint of someone who understands this on a deeper level than many others might. In the game it's not about authority, don't let your own insecurities cloud your judgment, but if you perform in group content to such a poor standard people are going to call it out. We are talking about pressing one button here.

In my place of work as you seem to be so interested, I am the authority and I take the blame if something goes wrong. In just about any job that isn't the arts there is always a procedure or as you like to put it, a right and wrong way. I work in engineering and the amount of procedure would blow your mind. This might seem amazing to you but Boeing, Rolls Royce and Airbus don't really want us to freestyle their products.

I don't treat people in game like I would at work, it is just a game so I expect much less from them. Wasting other people's times because you can't be arsed though isn't ok. Try that in any sport, you'd be off the team after one game, I don't think that's unreasonable.

The dancer telling the "tryhard" to stop talkning to them doesn't suggest anxiety, it's confrontational for a start. It suggests poor attitude, it's a classic you don't pay my sub response.

[Darkmoonrise]

About the dnc drama which is basically the never-ending question of: Should blatantly massively underperforming people be “punished”. Note the blatantly and massively. I get that you cannot be 100% all the time. But I think that, a no dance partner or an ice mage, even after pointing the point out, fall in this category.

Let’s say you’re a group of dwarf transporting beer from the brewery to the tavern. You’re 15 dwarfs and there are 300 kegs to move. As a payment, when all the 300 kegs are delivered, the tavern keeper will offer 1 free beer to every dwarf involved.

You all have your tools at disposal and if used correctly they allow you to carry 20 kegs. And all the dwarfs have the capabilities to use their tools if they want to. Just read the instruction and put a little effort to use it as intended.

Now, just out of laziness or because he didn’t read the instructions or because he blatantly don’t want to use its tools, Bakhur only carries 6 kegs. Thus, to achieve the transport of all the 300 kegs, the other dwarfs need to carry 1 keg more each.

At the end, 300 kegs are delivered, and everybody receives a beer. Is this fair?

So now the analogy (yes, because I didn’t tell this story just for the fun of it. How surprising!). Kegs are the amount of damage that needs to be delt during a combat. The dwarfs are the DPS (not entering in the heal-dps debate here), the tools are each jobs kit, the instruction are the tooltip for each ability and the free beer is the loot.

If you think this story is fair, I’m sorry for you being used by other people to achieve their own goal. And wish you all the best for when you will realize that, unlike you who care about them, they don't care about you at all. And I speak from experience, this was an unpleasant moment for me.

If you think that this is not fair, well nothing to say here because I agree with you.