Headgear for Viera and Hrothgar in 6.0

[Jandor]

Yeah most of the Viera and Hrothgar hat mods probably look bad in certain situations, but then again so does plenty of gear with the old races. Tails clip, horns clip, hair clips, doesn't really seem fair to hold modders to a higher standard than we hold SE.

The fact modders can make it work at all means that hatless Viera and Hrothgar isn't some limitation inherent to the game or the races, SE just don't want to do the work required for whatever reason. Up to them I suppose, still disappointing though.

[Awha]

Yeah most of the Viera and Hrothgar hat mods probably look bad in certain situations, but then again so does plenty of gear with the old races. Tails clip, horns clip, hair clips, doesn't really seem fair to hold modders to a higher standard than we hold SE.

The fact modders can make it work at all means that hatless Viera and Hrothgar isn't some limitation inherent to the game or the races, they just don't want to do the work required for whatever reason.

Modders have it easier, the fact is we as modders do not know how such changes will impact the game when it comes to technical debt they have to deal with server communication.

Remember modders also do not have to deal with any form of oversight which is another barrier.

[Iscah]

The fact modders can make it work at all means that hatless Viera and Hrothgar isn't some limitation inherent to the game or the races, SE just don't want to do the work required for whatever reason. Up to them I suppose, still disappointing though.

I assume it's something to do with limitations in the system that handles different parts of the character model, rather than an inherent inability to make the models work shape-wise.

I just have a hard time believing they'd put themselves through all this backlash from fans if it really was straightforward for them to implement.

[LaughingBanana]

Is there any convenient way to know whether a hairstyle is compatible for Viera or not? Since some of those hairs are expensive, it would be devastating to buy a hairstyle only for it to be incompatible to the character.

I want to start a new Viera alt so any info for this is appreciated, thank you.

[myahele]

Is there any convenient way to know whether a hairstyle is compatible for Viera or not? Since some of those hairs are expensive, it would be devastating to buy a hairstyle only for it to be incompatible to the character.

I want to start a new Viera alt so any info for this is appreciated, thank you.

No hairstyles work for Viera outside of the Viera-only hair

[Yencat]

I assume it's something to do with limitations in the system that handles different parts of the character model, rather than an inherent inability to make the models work shape-wise.

I just have a hard time believing they'd put themselves through all this backlash from fans if it really was straightforward for them to implement.

I wonder about that.

The mod creator said that the hats already go on their heads when you equip them and all the mod does is remove the invisibility SE has forced on them, so they're not floating off in Narnia and he didn't have to manually fit them to their heads or anything like that.

Now let's say for argument's sake that's all it is, they work but SE has made them invisible for reasons. If they wanted to undo this they'd have to A) Make hat-compatible hairstyles for both races, and B) Go through every single piece of head wear and (entirely subjectively) decide what clipping is acceptable and what isn't.

Do you hide Viera ears when they're wearing a top hat or "witch" hat? It would make sense to, but you'd be removing their most identifying race feature. Now let's take a cowboy-style hat, do you hide them or do you let them clip and on a shorter ear-type only the tips would be poking out the top? Do you let a hat that's lower in the back clip into a Hrothgar's hunched back, or do you make that one invisible for them and visible for Viera? etc. etc.

So even if (hypothetically, of course) the solution was this straightforward they would still be opening themselves up to backlash either way because "why does X item work but Y item doesn't, they have similar models" or "I bought/rolled for X item only to find out it doesn't show!".

It's very disappointing as a player because at least a few more options could, in theory, have been available. But if any of this is even slightly true then I guess I can kind of see why they did what they did and decided to save themselves the headache and this would be more consistent across the board.

They could also just make hat-compatible hairstyles and let players decide what clipping is acceptable or not, but they either don't want that or there is in fact a technical issue.

[Iscah]

Do you hide Viera ears when they're wearing a top hat or "witch" hat? It would make sense to, but you'd be removing their most identifying race feature. Now let's take a cowboy-style hat, do you hide them or do you let them clip and on a shorter ear-type only the tips would be poking out the top? Do you let a hat that's lower in the back clip into a Hrothgar's hunched back, or do you make that one invisible for them and visible for Viera? etc. etc.

In addition to "saving the endless questioning over why some things work and others don't" (which already happens on a small scale over the few things that do get through) the thing about ears hiding or showing makes particular sense, and doubly in combination with the remark - which I can't find but I know it was in one of the common quotes regarding headgear - that it only would have worked if they had ears in the same position as Miqo'te.

Headgear evidently has a piece of data that instructs it to hide or show Miqo'te ears, but I assume you would want a different set of decisions for Viera, and they may not be able to attach that new rule to the hats.

I gather that modders just get to reach in and bypass the rules and turn all the switches on and off as it suits them, but the standard game system doesn't have that degree of control.

[Yencat]

In addition to "saving the endless questioning over why some things work and others don't" (which already happens on a small scale over the few things that do get through) the thing about ears hiding or showing makes particular sense, and doubly in combination with the remark - which I can't find but I know it was in one of the common quotes regarding headgear - that it only would have worked if they had ears in the same position as Miqo'te.

Headgear evidently has a piece of data that instructs it to hide or show Miqo'te ears, but I assume you would want a different set of decisions for Viera, and they may not be able to attach that new rule to the hats.

I gather that modders just get to reach in and bypass the rules and turn all the switches on and off as it suits them, but the standard game system doesn't have that degree of control.

It seems those rules already exist for Viera and Hrothgar in the same place all the other switches are. They're used very sparingly in the game for items like the Werewolf Head which completely remove Viera ears in favor of the werewolf ears, so it is possible for them to use this already.

Really makes it seem like a workload issue paired with a design choice for consistency, but it would be nice if they ever decided to even just slightly lift the veil on this and talk about the how's and the why's.

[Iscah]

I stand corrected then. But yeah, I wish they were more willing to talk about the technical side of things - would save so much of this speculation and repeat conversations.

(When does the "show Au Ra horns" setting get used though, I wonder? I'm sure they just stick through everything.)

[Belauron]

All I would ask for in 6.0 is all Job gear works on all races(Talking about the headgear ofc), not that bothered by quest gear its annoying but can deal with it.

And that Hrothgar has access to all of their creation options in the stylist, if all the heads are somewhat the same, why can't I use all the hairstyles?

And why oh why did they think it was a great idea to make you have to pay real money to change your style when you only have the option of TWO!

I miss my Hrothgar, but I missed being able to change my hair whenever I was in the mood more