Need help to play Summoner

[Ariel_Valmont]

Nobody learns a rotation correctly by adding actions one at a time from Lv1.

That’s literally how the game teaches you the rotation for every job that started at level 1, one skill at a time (aside from the starter set)
And most likely is the reason that jobs that don’t start at level one require you to have leveled something else, so you can take the kit they give you and know how it works.

As usual, reading the tool tips is the key.

[Ariel_Valmont]

I would that if they couldn't grok it the first time they leveled from lvl 1 then doing that again (accelerated) might not be helpful, but that's generally a good tip for classes that start at higher levels and/or boosted classes.

That would be good to make sure they don't have the anxiety that comes with being in a group and not understanding your job though. That and command missions.

I grok that.

[Rongway]

Nobody learns a rotation correctly by adding actions one at a time from Lv1.

That’s literally how the game teaches you the rotation for every job that started at level 1, one skill at a time (aside from the starter set)
And most likely is the reason that jobs that don’t start at level one require you to have leveled something else, so you can take the kit they give you and know how it works.

Your comment ignores the boldunderlined part of my statement. And the part that follows:

Nobody learns a rotation correctly by adding actions one at a time from Lv1. Most jobs don't even have fleshed-out rotations until 60.

The game doesn't teach you the rotation. If you base your rotation only on the actions the game gives you, one at a time, in the order it gives them to you, you will set your hotbars up incorrectly. It's not until about 60 that you have enough actions to devise a decent arrangement of actions on your hotbar, and even then, you will still set up them up incorrectly on most jobs if you don't look all the way to 80. Some time between 62 and 80, you will need to reorganize your bars and unlearn bad habits you developed because you didn't look ahead and base your hotbar arrangement on your complete action set.

So again.

Nobody learns a rotation correctly by adding actions one at a time from Lv1.

[Ariel_Valmont]

Your comment ignores the boldunderlined part of my statement. And the part that follows:


The game doesn't teach you the rotation. If you base your rotation only on the actions the game gives you, one at a time, in the order it gives them to you, you will set your hotbars up incorrectly. It's not until about 60 that you have enough actions to devise a decent arrangement of actions on your hotbar, and even then, you will still set up them up incorrectly on most jobs if you don't look all the way to 80. Some time between 62 and 80, you will need to reorganize your bars and unlearn bad habits you developed because you didn't look ahead and base your hotbar arrangement on your complete action set.

So again.

Nobody learns a rotation correctly by adding actions one at a time from Lv1.

With the exception of post 50 BLM mage that’s exactly how I learned every rotation, it’s literally that easy. And every job has a fleshed out rotation at level 50.

[Ariel_Valmont]

There is no “correct” way to set up hot bars, people set them up how it makes them comfortable for themselves. The game literally builds the rotation for you as you’re leveling.

[Rongway]

There is no “correct” way to set up hot bars

There's literally a whole branch of computer science and cognitive science that studies interface design, that says most end users who are given a customizable interface will customize it wrong, and considerations that an interface designer needs to keep in mind to minimize the negative impact of users who customize their interfaces wrong.

[Ariel_Valmont]

There's literally a whole branch of computer science and cognitive science that studies interface design, that says most end users who are given a customizable interface will customize it wrong, and considerations that an interface designer needs to keep in mind to minimize the negative impact of users who customize their interfaces wrong.

If you’re given a customizable interface, how is there a wrong way to use it? Isn’t the whole point of a customizable interface to allow the end user the ability to set it up in a manner that functions easily for THEM. Seems to me there is a whole branch of computer science wasting their time. “Why didn’t you use this interface like I did” shrieks some nerd in disgust...

If we compared hot bar setups , we’d probably both tell each other your hot bar is FUBAR. I mean really, the hot bar has nothing to do with it anyway, it’s all about the keybinds, if someone is so inclined they could play without the hot bars visible (so much for design \o/...

[fumofu]

I'd still prefer learning class from lv1 rather than being thrown straight to lv70 or whatever with 30+ skills and having no idea where to even start...
Optimization can come later, once i'm familiar and comfortable with skills.

[Grimoire-M]

If you’re given a customizable interface, how is there a wrong way to use it? Isn’t the whole point of a customizable interface to allow the end user the ability to set it up in a manner that functions easily for THEM. Seems to me there is a whole branch of computer science wasting their time. “Why didn’t you use this interface like I did” shrieks some nerd in disgust...

If we compared hot bar setups , we’d probably both tell each other your hot bar is FUBAR. I mean really, the hot bar has nothing to do with it anyway, it’s all about the keybinds, if someone is so inclined they could play without the hot bars visible (so much for design \o/...

Well to be fair the default WASD controls are an active detriment to most rotations just because they forcibly combine the hotbars and movement/camera binds in a manner that makes both feel cramped. In pretty much every MMO I swap it out immediately and use the same setup I have used since I was a kid.

The reason WASD remains popular is purely because it overlaps better with action games that copied their standard controls from 90s FPS titles. Once you actually have to press 12-18 buttons regularly on top of movement and camera management an RTS setup works way better.

[Karshan]

There is no “correct” way to set up hot bars, people set them up how it makes them comfortable for themselves. The game literally builds the rotation for you as you’re leveling.

I Don't know about wrong interface, but where I agree with him is that ergonomics exist and matter, and what might be more ergonomic in a 50 rotation becomes a pain in an 80 rotation, thus forcing you to forsake muscle memory regularly along the way.

Fortunately, they allowed us (not so long ago though) to put everyskill in the hotbar already even if not having them unlocked.
So you can check a guide of lv80 gameplay to see the frequency and synergy to put long CDs on keys far away, group the fitting ones, put the ones that will be used more during movement close to movement keys, etc...), set your entire bars accordingly, and only use the skills unlocked until then but building the correct muscle memory.

And you do want muscle memory. Muscle memory plays a great part in not messing anything in your rotation and gives you mental leeway to focus on fight mechanics and how to tweak said rotation around the encounter, and not on which button to press.

Also yeah, learning the rotation is easier if you learn the 80, and just don't do the parts you don't have yet. Than starting 1 and changing along the way how you do stuff. Sometimes adding a skill isn't just one more button to press, it changes how you organize cooldowns, etc...
Doing so, you might not be doing an optimal 50, 60, 70 rotation, but no one cares, because if 1 -> 79 longs 30-50 hours, you spend thousands of hours max level. 80 rotation is a lot more important to learn.