just start selling yourself SE

[Vahlnir]

Did you really create a 4 page long thread out of a troll post just because the troll OP promised it "totally wasn't a super duper troll post"?
By the Twelve...

Honestly, it's hard to tell sometimes. I've seen some pretty terrible ideas lately from people who seem to genuinely believe in them. Considering chaos seems to reign supreme around here I've decided to just roll with it, even if they're a known troll.

[ItMe]

Did you really create a 4 page long thread out of a troll post just because the troll OP promised it "totally wasn't a super duper troll post"?
By the Twelve...

Quite a few people on this forum still actively engage with well known trolls.
Compared to this it's pretty harmless to give OP the benefit of the doubt.

[MsQi]

The "so far", at least, was used in the context that it only gives an advantage to a certain point and not further, not that it doesn't give an advantage "yet".

I should have included the "only" as in "only so far". It's still an advantage no matter how he downplays it.

As a World progger, anyone who's actually serious at getting world 1st on anything is already max level and has planned months ahead of time to participate in the race.
Meaning the time to endgame is literally never a variable in the equation, since it will have been done long, long, LONG before the race, whether you level skip or level manually get to endgame. Level/story boosters aren't pay to win in any context; they provide zero endgame advantage where content actually matters. This is also irrelevant on any race besides the very 1st of each expansion, as you'll already be at max level for the world races in .2 & .4 patches just from participating in the world race of .0.

This even disregards the fact that each tier of raids opens up with a set of crafted gear that literally renders any time you spent grinding on any sort of gear at endgame invalid, meaning someone at endgame 3 months before a new raid patch who used a level boost will have zero advantage than someone who got to endgame 1 day before raid patch after spending 300 hours grinding through the MSQ.

Unless you'd like to tell me how that level boost manages to reach out into the real world and inject you with the knowledge of how to perfectly master your rotation, know every mechanic of every fight and can execute them flawlessly, and gives you a set of 530 gear instantly.

Doesn't matter if you took 300 hours or 3 to reach endgame; your player skill is literally the only thing that matters at Savage/Ultimate, which no level/story boost can give.

If only the bleeding edge matters then it doesn't matter what they sell, The world firsts have their recognition, everyone else has lost as far as they are concerned and anything else is just a matter of time. Any item they sell is just saving the player time, they might as well just sell everything, by your own argument, which sets you at odds with Vahlnir.

But that isn't really how it is. winning in and mmo is not just one thing. It's not just beating the hardest content first. The game is designed with a plethora of goals and various concepts of winning. Getting to level cap, finishing story content, Leveling crafting, Getting the "saint" title, Ranking in pvp, Finishing high end continent while it is still difficult, These are all goals and and ways to win in this game. Level boosts and story skips are selling advancement that goes toward one or more ways of winning. People care about who does what and when. "My group cleared it before your group!" etc. I've been at this for a Long time.

If only skill matters then it doesn't matter if they sell gear. However skill takes time to learn. If you aren't using time to get through the story or to level you can use that time to develop your skills. I wasn't talking about only world firsts. If two people start today and one uses a skip, that person has less to do before getting into end game content, and spend more time learning fights and likely get done before the other. That is an advantage in endgame. If a person gets to endgame 3 months before the raid patch while the other 3 days, they got to play the previous tier while it was still considered current. That is also something people consider an advantage.

Every time you said "zero" you were 100% wrong.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

how about SE just sells it directly to the players.

Think of it like auction house 2.0 from Diablo 2. They can throw all the BiS in there too, doesn't have to be on patch day but eventually. Sky is the limit but please don't go down the worse road of all, LOOTBOXES.

And to give back to players have past seaonal food recipes available to purchase for gil. Fair trade off to me. Or do you, the wonderful community on the forum, think i have gone to far and that the seasonal food should stay on the store.

Better idea....dont do ANY of this, and keep the game how it is.
You want something? Then try to get a group together and learn the content and play the game. I know, its time consuming and sometimes tough...but if you want something, you need to put in the effort to earn it.

[Bsrking5]

Better idea....dont do ANY of this, and keep the game how it is.
You want something? Then try to get a group together and learn the content and play the game. I know, its time consuming and sometimes tough...but if you want something, you need to put in the effort to earn it.

Ok, but when i try and get new player into the game how do you explain how content seller are protected by SE. That RMT spammers and bots are dealt with passive-aggressive. That the game isnt pay to win when it is shoved front and center. That its not plagued with abuse because you look away from it and pretend its not real.

[Themarvin]

Keep the game how it is, perma ban content Savage and Ultimate sellers, just for posting stuff in it in PF and demand no use of external links including SE forums in PF as a ToS strike 1-2-3 addendum.

[Godzillaxpowerrangers]

Did you really create a 4 page long thread out of a troll post just because the troll OP promised it "totally wasn't a super duper troll post"?
By the Twelve...

When I see the it's not a troll post I know its a troll.

[Liam_Harper]

Yeah Square, sell me an "I win" button so I can stop playing this game

You know your thread is a really bad troll when even MPK comes along and goes "nope, count me out"...

[Saefinn]

Ok, but when i try and get new player into the game how do you explain how content seller are protected by SE. That RMT spammers and bots are dealt with passive-aggressive. That the game isnt pay to win when it is shoved front and center. That its not plagued with abuse because you look away from it and pretend its not real.

But /are/ they protected by SE? I've never seen them come out in favour of them or saying it's okay to do. The explanation really should be, "there's people who get away with things they're probably not supposed to". The game isn't designed to be pay to win. There are people who choose to exploit it that way, but that's been a thing in MMO's since forever, it's not by design, it's by exploit. When it comes to RMT especially then it's like cutting the head off of a hydra, as long as they're making more money than it costs for them to make new accounts then they'll keep doing it.

And given for many types of runs these people will need to log into your account. You're not exactly going to be able to leech an Ultimate run. So that's a big "no".

[Penthea]

how about SE just sells it directly to the players.

No, because the vast majority of players don't engage in paying to be carried or having their account played for them so they can get goodies.

Think of it like auction house 2.0 from Diablo 2. They can throw all the BiS in there too, doesn't have to be on patch day but eventually. Sky is the limit but please don't go down the worse road of all, LOOTBOXES.

It only works in Diablo because it's not a mmorpg. It's a mostly single player game and while there is co-op it's very small groups.

Also Diablo heavily relies on borrowed power (gear that makes your abilities act differently and be far more powerful) to be able to get past certain points so sometimes you do need ultra specific gear to do something. BiS exists in FF but you don't -need- everything to be BiS to clear content. FF isn't balanced around having full BiS but Diablo is balanced around having a lot of borrowed power.

And if the SE ever bring in what you suggest I would seriously consider quitting. If I wanted to play a game where the devs endorse pay to win then I wouldn't be playing this game.