Warrior of Lights and Crystals of Light

[Enkidoh]

There was also the 'fake' Crystal of Darkness the Students of Baldesion made Minfilia towards the end of the 2.0 story that was meant to be used to free Thancred from Lahabrea's posession... except after showing it in the Waking Sands and talked a bit about it was never mentioned again (Thancred ended up being freed thanks to the WoL using the Blade of Light against Lahabrea instead which shattered the Crystal of Darkness around Thancred's neck that allowed Lahabrea to possess him).

It always seemed odd to me that the fake Crystal was made such a big deal of, and then was forgotten about and never mentioned again. So I guess, it was just a red herring maybe.

[Veloran]

I disagree. The Water Crystal acquisition, sure, but it's not just one Treant/Goobbue etc. It's wave after wave, and sure, the town Scion is there strutting their stuff, but you protect them under their own advisement.

Killing a few fodder enemies isn't a feat. Most FATEs have a greater number of more dangerous monsters. As for the others, none of them are impressive either. Setting aside Schrodinger's party, WoL would go on to kill all of those Primals, in increasingly more powerful forms, like three or four more times. The real threat of the Primals was ever their ability to temper, and WoL is just inherently immune to that.

And never mind that WoL regularly defeated equitable or more deadly enemies than the diremite and dragon, my point about Ardbert's party before was that getting crystals doesn't appear to be tied to feats of strength, but instead feats of character. Ardbert got his crystal for not killing Cylva, for example. Not a single one of WoL's crystals was generated in a situation where his character was tested, only his power, and even that is debatable.

[Anonymoose]

I think we can circumvent a lot of this TO WHAT DEGREE SHOULD WE BE WHELMED talk, to be honest.

It stands to reason that the "aetherial wheel" which appears under the player is part of the unique champion blessing, since it "sockets" the six crystals as we go. It is intended that our strength draw them to us if part of that blessing is, as Lahabrea accused, "interfering with the aetherial realm to manifest" them.

If getting your "gift" crystal as a one-crystal-bearing Warrior of Light is a dramatic feat, or at least a show of dedication to Her cause, getting the first crystal as Her champion is probably a significantly lower bar because it's the first step of the journey - She just has to believe you're the one who can complete the set and wield it righteously, and you took the first step of your own volition. The adventurer was granted the Echo, and the instant they used that gift to interfere in a problem to do good and counter Ascian plot, BAM, let's get rolling, here's #1 on the house.

I took Oda-san's "don't think too hard about why you got the water one first" as code for "It's Final Fantasy, the blue one is thematically appropriate, so you have that one most often," lol. Likewise, the "real" answer here is that the writers need to hook you early by giving you a taste of the power and importance to come (similar to why games hand out level-ups like candy at first, then draw out that gratification more and more over time). The lore has to allow for that somehow, it's game design.

[Vyrerus]

Killing a few fodder enemies isn't a feat. Most FATEs have a greater number of more dangerous monsters. As for the others, none of them are impressive either. Setting aside Schrodinger's party, WoL would go on to kill all of those Primals, in increasingly more powerful forms, like three or four more times. The real threat of the Primals was ever their ability to temper, and WoL is just inherently immune to that.

And never mind that WoL regularly defeated equitable or more deadly enemies than the diremite and dragon, my point about Ardbert's party before was that getting crystals doesn't appear to be tied to feats of strength, but instead feats of character. Ardbert got his crystal for not killing Cylva, for example. Not a single one of WoL's crystals was generated in a situation where his character was tested, only his power, and even that is debatable.

Ardbert and his companions didn't need to have their power tested, though in all of the memory reliving, that comes before the test of character anyway. Even so, they were all talented powerhouses before they were WoLs, except for Ardbert. Renda-Rae realm renowned hunter. Nyaalbert, a sorcerer unparalleled. Brendan, one of the best knights of Voeburt. Also bear in mind that Cylva shepherded them towards deeds that would net them Crystals of Light as well, meaning it wasn't fully something they did by guidance like we do.

Also you bring up FATEs like that matters. As if they aren't, from a story stand point, something the WoL does mostly by themself as well. The primals only go on to become more powerful, BECAUSE the WoL bested them. The Ascians stepped their game up, giving the Beastmen the secrets of sacrificing an individual to be the primal's core. The WoL doesn't canonically defeat more powerful foes until after the events of the MSQ, and in the few cases that they do, those certain FATE monsters that you are thinking of are in close proximity to that timeframe.

Anyway, my point is that the WoL's character never needed to be tested. Hydaelyn knew from first Echo that we'd be the one to carry out her will and bear the crystals. Our power is ever tested, because we are immutably good.

[Kesey]

Ardbert and his companions didn't need to have their power tested, though in all of the memory reliving, that comes before the test of character anyway. Even so, they were all talented powerhouses before they were WoLs, except for Ardbert. Renda-Rae realm renowned hunter. Nyaalbert, a sorcerer unparalleled. Brendan, one of the best knights of Voeburt. Also bear in mind that Cylva shepherded them towards deeds that would net them Crystals of Light as well, meaning it wasn't fully something they did by guidance like we do.

Also you bring up FATEs like that matters. As if they aren't, from a story stand point, something the WoL does mostly by themself as well. The primals only go on to become more powerful, BECAUSE the WoL bested them. The Ascians stepped their game up, giving the Beastmen the secrets of sacrificing an individual to be the primal's core. The WoL doesn't canonically defeat more powerful foes until after the events of the MSQ, and in the few cases that they do, those certain FATE monsters that you are thinking of are in close proximity to that timeframe.

Anyway, my point is that the WoL's character never needed to be tested. Hydaelyn knew from first Echo that we'd be the one to carry out her will and bear the crystals. Our power is ever tested, because we are immutably good.

The FATES aren't done solo. They are done by adventurers. Every other player you see is just another adventurer in your story, as what makes you unique isn't being an adventurer its the fact you're the WOL.

Also the crystals are a reward for proving yourself. Each of them are earned by your WOL or by Ardbert and company. In Heavensward Midgardsormr cuts off the blessing of light provided by the crystals and again the WOL earns them back.

[Alleo]

Killing a few fodder enemies isn't a feat. Most FATEs have a greater number of more dangerous monsters. As for the others, none of them are impressive either. Setting aside Schrodinger's party, WoL would go on to kill all of those Primals, in increasingly more powerful forms, like three or four more times. The real threat of the Primals was ever their ability to temper, and WoL is just inherently immune to that.

And never mind that WoL regularly defeated equitable or more deadly enemies than the diremite and dragon, my point about Ardbert's party before was that getting crystals doesn't appear to be tied to feats of strength, but instead feats of character. Ardbert got his crystal for not killing Cylva, for example. Not a single one of WoL's crystals was generated in a situation where his character was tested, only his power, and even that is debatable.

Not all of those primals we fight are even canon (and in later expansions they made sure to say that its just the retelling of a bard). Also just because we defeat more powerful forms later does not take away from what we accomplished earlier. Even without the tempering these are dangerous enemies that probably a lot of people wont be able to defeat alone. Look at Eddas party that got wiped out in a dungeon where we had no problems with.

[Vyrerus]

The FATES aren't done solo. They are done by adventurers. Every other player you see is just another adventurer in your story, as what makes you unique isn't being an adventurer its the fact you're the WOL.

Also the crystals are a reward for proving yourself. Each of them are earned by your WOL or by Ardbert and company. In Heavensward Midgardsormr cuts off the blessing of light provided by the crystals and again the WOL earns them back.

Tell that to the FATEs in Azys Lla, which are accessible immediately, but within the context of the narrative, the WoL and company are the second set of mortals after the Heavensward to set foot there in 5,000 years.

[Veloran]

Ardbert and his companions didn't need to have their power tested, though in all of the memory reliving, that comes before the test of character anyway. Even so, they were all talented powerhouses before they were WoLs, except for Ardbert. Renda-Rae realm renowned hunter. Nyaalbert, a sorcerer unparalleled. Brendan, one of the best knights of Voeburt. Also bear in mind that Cylva shepherded them towards deeds that would net them Crystals of Light as well, meaning it wasn't fully something they did by guidance like we do.

The only one of them that was really abnormally gifted was Nyelbert and that's because he was literally bred and trained from birth to be a mage. Renda-Rae was just a hunter with particularly keen hearing, Brendan was a newly appointed knight who happened to catch the princess' eye and become her bodyguard, Lamitt was a novice healer searching for a cure for her people, and Ardbert was just a young warrior. Cylva may have nudged things here and there but I really don't think she can be pegged as having caused any of them to get their crystals in any meaningful regard.

Also you bring up FATEs like that matters. As if they aren't, from a story stand point, something the WoL does mostly by themself as well. The primals only go on to become more powerful, BECAUSE the WoL bested them. The Ascians stepped their game up, giving the Beastmen the secrets of sacrificing an individual to be the primal's core. The WoL doesn't canonically defeat more powerful foes until after the events of the MSQ, and in the few cases that they do, those certain FATE monsters that you are thinking of are in close proximity to that timeframe.

My point regarding FATEs is that even outside of big boss encounters, basic FATEs found in the starting zones are at least as dangerous as what WoL did to get the first crystal, probably moreso. As for the Primals, again, they are really not very dangerous outside of the threat of tempering, Arenvald has been going around dealing with them in Eorzea since at least Heavensward and Stormblood and he's never gotten a crystal. Not to mention, for some reason WoL hasn't gotten any more crystals outside of the original six.

Frankly I think it's obvious the crystals are a dropped plot point from an earlier version of the story. The fire, earth, and wind crystals all came directly from Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda, the latter even being produced directly from her body and the former two seemingly having the same origins. Meanwhile Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva weren't implemented in time for 2.0, so the water, lightning, and ice crystals were all just obtained either randomly (for the one found in the starting area) or in some conditions that were vaguely associated with the element and Primal they were supposed to have come from. This is probably a vestige of the story from when the Primals were intended to be actual incarnations of elemental power rather than merely aetherial constructs based on myth and legend.

Anyway, my point is that the WoL's character never needed to be tested. Hydaelyn knew from first Echo that we'd be the one to carry out her will and bear the crystals. Our power is ever tested, because we are immutably good.

How exactly does this make any sense? I know early-game WoL is basically just a nodding automaton but there is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't need a test of character but somehow Ardbert and his party did, they occupy the exact same niche of "good guys". Hell if we consider the range of dialog options often available to WoL plus the sorts of things they've done in various quests, WoL's character is way more questionable than theirs was.

[Vyrerus]

The only one of them that was really abnormally gifted

Renda-Rae was literally one of the best hunters in Norvrandt. It's stated explicitly in her role quests. Though Branden was a new recruit, he was considered, "rather promising" by the Voeburt knight captain. Lamitt was a master of Ronkan white magic, and a daughter of a leading dwarf family. Ardbert is literally the only no-name, nobody, though of course he's not by the time he gets his crystal. You should probably read what the game tells you. Cylva literally says that she orchestrated everything to do with Ardbert meeting who he met, and with them each getting their crystals. We assume that Ardbert gets his crystal by denying her, but we're actually never shown when he got his.

Most of the starting zone fates are low level wild life, and the only reason the battle that leads the WoL to the Water Crystal is easy is because the Scion is there to tank the boss.

Again, you should read more of what the game tells you. In the quests leading up to Titan they describe how horrific Titan is, and in associated sidequests there are NPCs that remark on their homes being destroyed, their families being killed, and other such similar things. Ifrit is the least dangerous, but only because Ul'dah takes active measure to put him down, time and time again, and put a direct squeeze on the Amal'jaa. He still kills and tempers in droves. Garuda they drop the ball for showing and even expositing her dangers in 2.0, but go watch some 1.0 cutscenes. She makes whirlwinds that literally body Gridanians. The text for Garuda Extreme states that with a flick of her talon, she destroys a half finished watchtower and kills all of its construction workers, the Blue Badgers.


As for Arenvald and primal slaying, no, he does not go around slaying primals by himself in Heavensward. I don't know where you got that from. He doesn't get into primal slaying until the allied contingency for it forms, comprised of Summoners, Arenvald, and Fordola. The first time he beats a primal is when he assists you against Lakshmi in Ala Mhigo. I'm sure he'd be given a Crystal of Light if the scriptwriter called for him to get one.

I don't think the crystals have been dropped completely, they just aren't a focus for the story anymore. They used them twice as major narrative points already, wouldn't want to get it worn out, would they(oh wait, three times cause of SHB, just not our own)?

Just because we get some edgy or witty dialogue options here and there doesn't mean we're morally grey or questionable or what have you. Sure, we kill and maim people all the time, but it falls under, "Comes with the territory." for what Hydaelyn expects us to be able to do. The WoL only ever gets to flirt with being morally grey, but they are always ultimately portrayed as lawful good. They're like a solid 85/100 on the Chaos Frame.

[Veloran]

Renda-Rae was literally one of the best hunters in Norvrandt. It's stated explicitly in her role quests. Though Branden was a new recruit, he was considered, "rather promising" by the Voeburt knight captain. Lamitt was a master of Ronkan white magic, and a daughter of a leading dwarf family. Ardbert is literally the only no-name, nobody, though of course he's not by the time he gets his crystal. You should probably read what the game tells you. Cylva literally says that she orchestrated everything to do with Ardbert meeting who he met, and with them each getting their crystals. We assume that Ardbert gets his crystal by denying her, but we're actually never shown when he got his.

Renda-Rae is considered one of the best hunters in Norvrandt now, back then she had just gained some renown for her tracking ability but failed on the big job that was supposed to make her truly famous. Branden showing some "promise" doesn't make him a "talented powerhouse", he failed to protect the princess and was cast out of the kingdom in disgrace. Lamitt knew the same healing magic that anybody else in Norvrandt could learn, and her family means nothing to her own talent and ability. And frankly the idea that Cylva orchestrated everything is simply not true, Ardbert met at least Lamitt and Branden before her, and Renda-Rae getting her crystal was up to circumstances that Cylva almost certainly couldn't have planned for.

Also pay attention to what you're arguing here, you're saying all the WoDs were super special skilled and talented, then on the other hand you're turning around a moment later and praising WoL for single-handedly overcoming these crazy powerful Primals. Seems to me that according to the standards of your argument, WoL needed neither a test of character nor power.

Most of the starting zone fates are low level wild life, and the only reason the battle that leads the WoL to the Water Crystal is easy is because the Scion is there to tank the boss.

WoL doesn't even damage the boss really, they just fight a bunch of random adds. There are tons of FATEs in the starting zones that have packs of minor voidsent or seedkin or wildlife or bandits to fight, again there is no marked difference in threat level here.

In the quests leading up to Titan they describe how horrific Titan is

Yes, because the Company of Heroes had to sacrifice two waves of people just to bypass his tempering. It's the same problem with all Primals, the only way for people without the Echo to even fight them is to throw bodies until they run out of aether for tempering.

The text for Garuda Extreme states that with a flick of her talon, she destroys a half finished watchtower and kills all of its construction workers, the Blue Badgers.

Whipping up a whirlwind to destroy a half-complete tower isn't exactly impressive.

As for Arenvald and primal slaying, no, he does not go around slaying primals by himself in Heavensward. I don't know where you got that from.

Because he was the only one left among the Scions with the Echo in Eorzea for almost all of 3.0 and 4.0, and if you speak to him and other characters at various points it's mentioned how he's taken over most of the Primal duties while WoL was away. Nowhere is it stated that the first time he faced a Primal was in Ala Mhigo, and we see in that encounter that he's already versed in shielding others from a Primal's influence as well. I'm not saying he was just running around doing it left and right, but nobody in the Scions is exactly a novice.

Just because we get some edgy or witty dialogue options here and there doesn't mean we're morally grey or questionable or what have you. Sure, we kill and maim people all the time, but it falls under, "Comes with the territory." for what Hydaelyn expects us to be able to do. The WoL only ever gets to flirt with being morally grey, but they are always ultimately portrayed as lawful good. They're like a solid 85/100 on the Chaos Frame.

I mean WoL literally killed a bunch of innocent people during those "episodes" with the DRK quests.