Tired of Zenos (spoilers)

[linayar]

As others have said to you, not everything has to be codified into good or evil.

I don't see "good and evil" in that quotation.

[Edax]

The best thing about Zenos is that it doesn't matter if you love or hate him, people always talk about him, just look at this topic. He's also frequently discussed on reddit. If people didn't care about Zenos, they would just ignore him. Even whining/complaining about him is a good thing because that means he generates emotions. A fictional character is only bad if it cannot generate emotions at all.

By that logic, Tommy Wiseau's "Johnny" was an excellent protagonist in The Room because he generates emotions and people still talk about him.. While certainly better to be remembered than forgotten, that's a very low standard to hold.

[Jennah]

I also felt that 5.3's Elidibus was basically a different character than previous Elidibus. To the point where I half-think that's somehow actually true, and not just radically-different writing.

And Endwalker is going to be a great expansion. Because we are going to kill Zenos and then *never hear from him again*.

[Rosenstrauch]

Oh my god, why would you say that? That sounds atrocious, now I'm worried. I hope to god they have more sense than to write something like this.

It is definitely a cursed take, yeah. I tend to be fairly optimistic about where the story can go, but Zenos? Zenos just provokes the pessimist in me, I guess. Even the way Elidibus was handled in 5.3—he's basically a new character altogether—didn't worry me quite as much as Zenos taking center stage over other, more interesting characters again.

On the bright side, Estinien will be joining us. I like him, and look forward to his perspective being part of the story.

[Bright-Flower]

Elidibus didn't really feel like a separate character to me in 5.3 so much as it felt like, now the only Unsundered left, he was coming apart at the seams a bit and growing desperate.

[Theodric]

Arguably one of the biggest issues with the FFXIV story lately is that the development team themselves don't necessarily know where they're going with specific characters. They've admitted as much in interviews - such as with the Warriors of Darkness. I think they handled Ardbert pretty well, all things considered. Yet that doesn't mean there can't be 'misses' to counter the 'hits'.

I was pretty disappointed with how Elidibus, Varis, Regula and Gaius were handled. Three of them - Elidibus, Varis and Gaius - were written to be effectively new characters altogether. Whereas Regula was pretty much forgotten about despite how big a deal it is to have found common ground with a Garlean Legatus.

One could argue that Ramza suffered similarly and was changed for no reason other than the endless complaints about him being feisty and sassy - but of course, when Alisae acts that way it's apparently fine.

As for Elidibus, I was hoping for a lot more from the 'maintaining balance' angle than we ended up getting.

I'm just worried we're treading the same path as WoW and we'll have to expect major characters shifting motives and personality on a patch by patch basis because 'rule of cool' is embraced more than 'realistic motivation/consequences'.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Elidibus didn't really feel like a separate character to me in 5.3 so much as it felt like, now the only Unsundered left, he was coming apart at the seams a bit and growing desperate.

That’s the thing though. Even when Lahabrea and Igeyorhm were deemed gone, he was calm and collected still. 5.3 goes completely against everything they built him up as all the way from 2.0. He was levelheaded and smart and calculating. What they pulled in 5.3 came out of nowhere and was purely for plot convenience which is what most of the expansion is filled with, plot holes and plot conveniences.

[Edax]

One could argue that Ramza suffered similarly and was changed for no reason other than the endless complaints about him being feisty and sassy - but of course, when Alisae acts that way it's apparently fine.

I recall Ramza making constant racist rants in his scenes. I don't recall Alisaie Leveilleur doing the same. It's one thing to snark with dry humor, it's another to be contemptable.

[Bright-Flower]

That’s the thing though. Even when Lahabrea and Igeyorhm were deemed gone, he was calm and collected still. 5.3 goes completely against everything they built him up as all the way from 2.0. He was levelheaded and smart and calculating. What they pulled in 5.3 came out of nowhere and was purely for plot convenience which is what most of the expansion is filled with, plot holes and plot conveniences.

But with Emet gone, he was now alone, and all his plans crumbling as he was forced to flee from Zenos, losing his grip on the Empire through Varis as well. It felt to me like he felt things were slipping out of control and he had to take care of us NOW. Even in 5.2/5.3 it felt like he simply thought he was doing what he had to do. Before he thought he could make use of us but by this point, we were out of control and had to be stopped.

He'd already decided in SB's patches that we needed to be stopped, but we were rescued before he could finish us off and then we went on to kill the last of his unsundered bretheren, and realizing he couldn't just stop us as he was hatched the plan to use the warrior of light gambit to stop us. I don' really see a shift in his motives.

THen again I wasn't really super invested in him in the first place, I liked the idea he represented of an ascian who was more level headed and not outright evil like Lahabreah but at the same time, while mysterious, he always felt kind of dull as a character in his own right. Elisibus for me had potential pre SHB but never really reached compelling for me until his character started being explored in 5.2 and 3.

[KizuyaKatogami]

But with Emet gone, he was now alone, and all his plans crumbling as he was forced to flee from Zenos, losing his grip on the Empire through Varis as well. It felt to me like he felt things were slipping out of control and he had to take care of us NOW. Even in 5.2/5.3 it felt like he simply thought he was doing what he had to do. Before he thought he could make use of us but by this point, we were out of control and had to be stopped.

He'd already decided in SB's patches that we needed to be stopped, but we were rescued before he could finish us off and then we went on to kill the last of his unsundered bretheren, and realizing he couldn't just stop us as he was hatched the plan to use the warrior of light gambit to stop us. I don' really see a shift in his motives.

THen again I wasn't really super invested in him in the first place, I liked the idea he represented of an ascian who was more level headed and not outright evil like Lahabreah but at the same time, while mysterious, he always felt kind of dull as a character in his own right. Elisibus for me had potential pre SHB but never really reached compelling for me until his character started being explored in 5.2 and 3.

The WoL gambit is just another rushed thing though. Yes his character back in arr hw and sb was less in your but they have more than enough information to make deductions and the portrayal was essentially the opposite of how he was in 5.3. We were never shown any memory issues, in fact he recounts a lot of things in ARR he doesn’t in ShB. It seems like they completely forgot about his balance ideal and decided to use him for ff1 fanservice. He hadn’t really lost his grip on the empire considering in the end Varis did use black rose(in the other timeline.) However that’s a plot hole in itself. If Elidibus was a primal this entire time he never should’ve lost somewhat of control and he should’ve gained power from the worship people had for Zenos but i’ve tended to just let it go about plot holes because the story is full of them.