GM Responses, Roleplay Advertising, and Party Finder - Megathread

[Saefinn]

I support the statement fully, and if you look up WoW’s rating and esrb it is also T for teen. Yet why is it not a problem there? The same multi-country legality extends to them as well. Sure, we can debate different devs, different ideals, different personal morality all day long, but if we’re going to hold someone to a guideline that earns strikes against them culminating in a ban....We need something other than “you are expected to behave yourself”. “Behaving yourself” is opinion based and can vary widely based on perspective.

I probably would debate different Devs different ideals, because whilst on the one hand you can use the comparison to suggest they're being overzealous here you could also use it to say WoW's team don't do enough.

But for sure I agree on the clarity point. It's not something the ToS is clear on and I think there is a sufficiently ambiguous way they can make clear their stance on this issue (that sentence feels like an oxymoron)

But I will add that it is unlikely we'll anything as clear, but I guess if we can establish if non adult RP advertisements arent getting hit by these GM's then I'd say it's the closest we'll get, because we'll know it's about the adult content if non adult content is being left alone

[RavenEbonclaw]

I genuinely feel here, what all of our goals are: They need clarity to hold people to. If it’s no ERP suggestive themes? Then so be it, the community inherently must abide to it, but what we have right now is unsustainable, leaves room for allegations that are misrepresented based on individual intent that may vary from either side of things, and leaves room for a ton of potential abuse.

[LianaThorne]

I just find it kind of backwards that in order to comply with the rules whilst advertising your venue, you have to invite children as well. Isn't that the opposite of protecting them? Children would have a far easier time avoiding crude interactions if they weren't blindsided by them. Even as an adult I like to be aware if an establishment is going to include half naked and/or drunken people so I know not to go there.

Fair enough. I'm just trying to offer a solution because IF the 18+ tag is the issue, then ultimately people will have to either take 18+ events completely off in-game advertisement or turn them into all ages SFW events (which is what I was saying, like a community event). Like there aren't many other solutions if the problem is ultimately that and the staff don't want 18+ advertised in game.

[EtherRose]

That is all. I welcome any criticism and discussion that can be had so that we can move on and change Final Fantasy XIV for the better.

If you aren't going to give anything constructive, then don't say anything at all; this is meant to be a constructive discussion thread, not just somewhere where you can bash Roleplaying however you like without explanation why.

Edit to @van_arn: I'm not saying people should get away with ERP or the like. But right now the line is too blurry to make a logical call on it in regards to Roleplay - refer to the original post.

Hmm, very ironic. Also, he is right.

Now for my explanation on the matter. I think RP shouldn't be allowed at all. None. Why? This a rated 13+ game. And with the past experiences I've had with RP'ers in FFXIV, it was very awkward, cringe and can downright spiral into 18+ ERP at any given moment. And this was in open chat years back in 2.0'ish. Now you may say "Well I don't do it", that doesn't matter. It doesn't mean that no one else does it. With the way RP is and how some people can take it off the rails pretty fast, it needs to be heavily moderated for a 13+ game. No if's and or but's. Things may have been different in the past years for RP but if people are reporting RP as it is now, it means that RP is getting out of hand.

I understand people love to RP and those who ERP ruin it for them but it really shouldn't be in a 13+ game as I said RP could easily turn into ERP. I mean, imagine you have a 13/14+ year old daughter or son who is playing with you and they start getting ERP messages from someone or even just normal RP messages which would turn into ERP or hearing it in normal chat. Would you be mad, etc?

[xxmiamorecadenza]

I really don't understand why the content selling advertisements are totally ignored yet stuff like this is being subject to so much scrutiny from the GMs.

The former aren't even in the right section of PF which makes it further baffling as to why they just let it slide.

So I'm a little confused. Because it's been a trend for people to point the finger at RMT sellers and the like when people mention ERP in a negative light.

I naturally assume that exposing and even involving minors with explicit 18+ rated content would be considered far more severe than someone potentially selling a digital mount, currency or title.

I'm not sure if anyone is implying that they're both equally bad or not. Can someone give me some clarification here?

[Risvertasashi]

Now for my explanation on the matter. I think RP shouldn't be allowed at all. None.

We better shut down FFXIV, then, since it's an RPG, and the very act of playing it is RPing.

[Penthea]

Hmm, very ironic. Also, he is right.

Now for my explanation on the matter. I think RP shouldn't be allowed at all. None. Why? This a rated 13+ game. And with the past experiences I've had with RP'ers in FFXIV, it was very awkward, cringe and can downright spiral into 18+ ERP at any given moment. And this was in open chat years back in 2.0'ish. Now you may say "Well I don't do it", that doesn't matter. It doesn't mean that no one else does it. With the way RP is and how some people can take it off the rails pretty fast, it needs to be heavily moderated for a 13+ game. No if's and or but's. Things may have been different in the past years for RP but if people are reporting RP as it is now, it means that RP is getting out of hand.

I understand people love to RP and those who ERP ruin it for them but it really shouldn't be in a 13+ game as I said RP could easily turn into ERP. I mean, imagine you have a 13/14+ year old daughter or son who is playing with you and they start getting ERP messages from someone or even just normal RP messages which would turn into ERP or hearing it in normal chat. Would you be mad, etc?

Either the rp community in NA is truly horrendous or you're greatly exaggerating.

Also lets not talk about rp as if it's the only sort of thing that can expose minors to inappropriate chatter. If a creep wants to be a creep they will find a way, with or without rp. I met plenty of creeps in my time gaming online and most of the time their advances did not start from rp at all. We didn't even meet through rp. Sometimes having a character that they think looks attractive is enough to get their attention. And no glamming modestly doesn't completely protect you from that kind of attention.

[HyoMinPark]

So I'm a little confused. Because it's been a trend for people to point the finger at RMT sellers and the like when people mention ERP in a negative light.

I naturally assume that exposing and even involving minors with explicit 18+ rated content would be considered far more severe than someone potentially selling a digital mount, currency or title.

I'm not sure if anyone is implying that they're both equally bad or not. Can someone give me some clarification here?

I think the issue lies with the cherry picking. If both are against the TOS, then both should be dealt with. The thing about the content selling PFs, though, is that they don’t directly mention that the content is being sold in exchange for real money. That is only mentioned off-site (usually via Discord DMs). And the moderation team have a history of not accepting third-party screenshots as evidence since they can be altered. They’ve broken the “no third-party evidence” before, but it’s not that common of a practice.

ERP involving minors is most definitely worse than RMT. Not saying it isn’t.

[Seoulstar]

Hmm, very ironic. Also, he is right.

Now for my explanation on the matter. I think RP shouldn't be allowed at all. None. Why? This a rated 13+ game. And with the past experiences I've had with RP'ers in FFXIV, it was very awkward, cringe and can downright spiral into 18+ ERP at any given moment. And this was in open chat years back in 2.0'ish. Now you may say "Well I don't do it", that doesn't matter. It doesn't mean that no one else does it. With the way RP is and how some people can take it off the rails pretty fast, it needs to be heavily moderated for a 13+ game. No if's and or but's. Things may have been different in the past years for RP but if people are reporting RP as it is now, it means that RP is getting out of hand.

I understand people love to RP and those who ERP ruin it for them but it really shouldn't be in a 13+ game as I said RP could easily turn into ERP. I mean, imagine you have a 13/14+ year old daughter or son who is playing with you and they start getting ERP messages from someone or even just normal RP messages which would turn into ERP or hearing it in normal chat. Would you be mad, etc?

I'm not sure how not allowing RP in a MMORPG would work out..

[LianaThorne]

Either the rp community in NA is truly horrendous or you're greatly exaggerating.

I wouldn't call it "horrendous" per say, but I would say it is heavily money driven (outside of Crystal apparently). And people in my DC at least know that RP venues make money so there are several venues that have opened simply for the purpose of making money through 18+ content. Personally I know someone who is planning to open one in the near future because of that. So I'm sure that factor is driving some people on the side that doesn't want 18+ content to be removed. Due to the fact that some are standing to lose a part of their income.

I'm not sure if any other DCs experience this (particularly EU/JP) but that's the situation that I'm aware of from Aether.