GM Responses, Roleplay Advertising, and Party Finder - Megathread

[HyperiusUltima]

Right, so as you can already tell this is opening a can of worms that everyone is going to see as trash and just push it aside saying "Eeeeeeh RP is EEE ARR PEEE in disguise". Well for those of you who think that way, maybe you should go visit Crystal and get to understand the community some - you'd be very surprised in how they do things; and if it isn't your speed? That's perfectly fine - but do not assume based on the general stereotype that had been set for Crystal as a whole and its labeling as the "RP Data Center" that it's literally filled with ERP and whatever; it's like trying to look at the face of game without playing it and saying "this game is trash" by being judgmental about it.



Now, if you've read that part and completely understand, let's get down to business and talk about what's going on with the community as of current: Roleplay. There's a large variety out there, but the trend that has been going on as of late has been related to advertising venues in the Party Finder and then getting thrown into Mordion Gaol for no reason. About a couple weeks or so back we had this very issue with a rogue GM that was cracking down on people who were merely advertising their venues.

Here's your thread right here for the initial issue.

Over the past few years we've been having some issues both with the Mordion Gaol system and abuse of the ToS to hurt other players out of spite for merely just small disagreements. If a player literally does not agree with you over something and they send a Harassment report, you'll go to Mordion Gaol for it with their framing, since the GMs focus on it on a one-way window instead of doing a proper investigation. I've talked with a couple GMs over the years myself when I've had to report people for being both toxic or merely blocking access to an NPC; never have I seen them hear both sides of the story and then close it out properly. It's one-sided.

If you go to Mordion Gaol, you also get a strike against your account more often than not and they cite the Terms of Service and the User Agreement. As they say...

3 Strikes, you're out. Check this thread here for a discussion about the 3 Strikes Policy.

However, there currently has been a recent incident regarding a player being sent to Mordion Gaol for merely advertising their RP venue in the Party Finder. That thread can be found on the front page, but if you want a direct link to it, here.

So, here's where the discussion starts: With the recent activity of GMs cracking down both a couple weeks ago and now on Roleplay Venues, we need to have a real talk both as a community and towards the GMs and Community Team about this issue - because we can't keep having this happen time and time again because some GM thinks that an RP Venue listing is not appropriate for the Party Finder. We have a "Other" section for this VERY reason; what else does it exist for?


So to both the Community Team and the GMs, I want to say this as a player who has been playing this game for a long time and has experienced both sides of the coin on this issue: (Disclaimer: This is my opinion.)

Please, PLEASE adjust your Terms of Service and User Agreement if you are so vehemently against Roleplaying Venues. In the past you've been completely for the Roleplaying scene and have fostered it; creating a very fun community that I've enjoyed for the past couple years as a way to spend off-time on FFXIV in a different way.

If we're to take the correct step forward both between player and developer, we need to set the rules straight and make them in a way that everyone can understand. If you really hate RP venues and having to remove them? Then simply update your User Agreement and ToS to remove Roleplaying from the usage of Party Finder since you all decide what the intended usage of your in-game tools are.

If you want to restrict certain things from the Party Finder in regards to Roleplaying? Make a clause that states that roleplaying venues cannot have anything pertaining to 18+ content(i.e. ERP, since it's the most common example everyone exacerbates around here). That's a fair way to crack down on it.

If you truly don't want to restrict it, then leave it as it is and let it run. It's simple as that.

I understand that this post can be considered critical of the GMs and the Community Team, but I want to spark this discussion once more so we can lay it to rest once and for all as a community and find a proper solution; not a band-aid that merely is removal of a certain GM. The players are supposed to play by the rules you set when they buy the game and agree to the User Agreement and Terms of Service; and if they are not violating those terms and agreements by any standard, they should not be thrown in Mordion Gaol.

If you want a list of things that people have been suspended from the forums for and also in-game, check here.

In addition, as I was looking for threads regarding this issue, I came upon this one. The fact that there are people witch hunting and actively attempting to shut down venues in some Data Centers is alarming, and should be considered Disruption, as per Section 3.2 of the Terms of Service agreement under Prohibited Activities, as that promotes a rather toxic environment for those wanting to roleplay.

In closing, I want to see the community AND the FFXIV Community Team discuss about this seriously as it will spin out of control if left unchecked. Whether people want to condone Roleplay or not, that's up to them - but being a service that has even created a Status for this particular play and encouraging it needs to take a firm stance on where to draw the line.

That is all. I welcome any criticism and discussion that can be had so that we can move on and change Final Fantasy XIV for the better.

[van_arn]

Just don’t. Erp go away.

Keep the age rating of the game in mind when advertising to the public. If whatever you're wanting to advertise MIGHT be seen as above the age rating, then please don't come crying when you get a GM nastygram.

Just because you've been getting away with it in the past doesn't mean you can keep getting away with it now.

I also want to keep the TOS situation gray so we don't have anyone evading a nastygram by skirting the line with content that shouldn't be there, no matter how pleasantly-phrased.

[HyperiusUltima]

Just don’t. Erp go away.

Keep the age rating of the game in mind when advertising to the public. If whatever you're wanting to advertise MIGHT be seen as above the age rating, then please don't 'come crying when you get a GM nastygram.

Just because you've been getting away with it in the past doesn't mean you can keep getting away with it now.

If you aren't going to give anything constructive, then don't say anything at all; this is meant to be a constructive discussion thread, not just somewhere where you can bash Roleplaying however you like without explanation why.

Edit to @van_arn: I'm not saying people should get away with ERP or the like. But right now the line is too blurry to make a logical call on it in regards to Roleplay - refer to the original post.

[Enla]

Honestly all I want is a firm stance from SE. The RP community can adapt either way as we've used off site event calendars for years without much trouble. Yet having no official stance about the matter just compounds the problem and leaves us out to dry.

And to clarify, I'm primarily talking about non-ERP events. I don't attend events that cross that particular line and wouldn't mind if they're excluded from party finder. However what I want is clarification either way from the devs rather than for players to play the worst game of telephone ever with the GMs.

[Theodric]

A lot of what really goes on in many of these venues is actively posted on social media, usually Twitter. As such, often it's easy to just throw some combination of 'night club' and 'ffxiv' into that site's search bar to get an idea of what to expect. Some of it is harmless, yet some of it isn't - and there's a troubling amount of people bending over backwards to excuse the latter for some reason.

[MPK]

Why do we need a second thread?

Just get rid of all the 18+ advertisements. This game is aimed at people ages 13+. There's no argument here. Stop advertising ERP venues.

[HyperiusUltima]

A lot of what really goes on in many of these venues is actively posted on social media, usually Twitter. As such, often it's easy to just throw some combination of 'night club' and 'ffxiv' into that site's search bar to get an idea of what to expect. Some of it is harmless, yet some of it isn't - and there's a troubling amount of people bending over backwards to excuse the latter for some reason.

Then provide regulation. As Enla stated, they can adapt to this and follow the rules if they want to Roleplay.

[LianaThorne]

Gonna just repeat what I've said in other threads in a short summary (keep in mind this regarding the US only, I'm not speaking for anywhere else):

- I personally don't care if people want to engage in RP or ERP.
- The rating for the game is Teen(T) in the US which means 13+
- The T rating is defined as: content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.
- Suggestive themes is defined as: Mild provocative references or materials
- The T rating does not cover references to alcohol
- "In game conversations are not rated by the ESRB" is not meant for us, it's meant to cover the ESRB
- Stating that a venue is 18+ is not in line with the 13+ rating given to the game in the US
- If something happens in game that involves a minor sneaking into a venue and being exposed to ERP or things that are not meant to be in a game rated 13+ and it blows up, Square will get a massive amount of heat for it and the people involved are risking real life consequences for engaging with a minor if it does involve ERP (cybersex crimes are real and it does not matter whether or not you were aware of their age and simulated sexual encounters are included)

[HyperiusUltima]

Why do we need a second thread?

Just get rid of all the 18+ advertisements. This game is aimed at people ages 13+. There's no argument here. Stop advertising ERP venues.

In regards to this, note that not all places are ERP venues that run with the 18+ banner. Investigation is key here and they need to take a stance on this. If they sell ERP? Then yes - certainly get rid of them.

[hobostew]

Why do we need a second thread?

Hopefully the forum mods nip this in the bud before it becomes the new spam subject like it always happens with new forum drama.