ROYAL RUBY • NIGHTCLUB • BEHEMOTH/PRIMAL

[SaberMaxwell]

A few thoughts:
- it wouldn't be so bad if the mark up was realistic, some items are real cheap to craft
- real items don't have to be exchanged and that can save cost there
- placing housing items is another way of having a physical item for people to ICly consume without there be repeat costs and I'd argue plays the effect better because the food remains physically there and physically represents the food you've put down and not a generic eat emote
- allow people to pay in pretend Gil and thus receive pretend items.
- hired staff seems to be where the business mentality comes in, the idea of RP is to have fun, so my expectation is that the people serving are doing it because they enjoy the RP...and people do, it's not like work you get some great IC interactions. And you can rotate with other RPers or offer to help them out if they doing it as favour to you. Do people have this mentality in these places that they only RP in those scenarios if they get paid? And not because they enjoy RP?

- some items, yeah, but also take into account the actual time it takes to craft them. It's not a lot to craft 3 mors, but 300 can take a while.
- that's true, although that's not the model we've ended up choosing. For some, transacting real gil for real items is part of the charm.
- true also, and I can see how establishments can make that work, but as far in as my particular venue is, that kind of shake up would probably just get us deserted.
- again, we've just ended up catering to people who like transacting real gil for real items.
- if you're able to maintain a full staff of employees for your venue on the joy of being there alone, I wish you all the power in the world. Turnover is harsh, people burn out over time even with the gil incentive to come around. At some level, getting paid hourly is part of the roleplay as well.

I can see where your concerns stem from. I just wanted to sort of show why some pricing is the way it is from the other side of the fence, as it were, maybe try and get it into the air that gil changing hands doesn't mean we're raking in money hand over fist. Well in gross we are but in net it's a lot closer to breaking even.

And you know what, I can also only speak for my own place, so take what I say with a grain of salt as well when looking at other places.

[LianaThorne]

- some items, yeah, but also take into account the actual time it takes to craft them. It's not a lot to craft 3 mors, but 300 can take a while.
- that's true, although that's not the model we've ended up choosing. For some, transacting real gil for real items is part of the charm.
- true also, and I can see how establishments can make that work, but as far in as my particular venue is, that kind of shake up would probably just get us deserted.
- again, we've just ended up catering to people who like transacting real gil for real items.
- if you're able to maintain a full staff of employees for your venue on the joy of being there alone, I wish you all the power in the world. Turnover is harsh, people burn out over time even with the gil incentive to come around. At some level, getting paid hourly is part of the roleplay as well.

I can see where your concerns stem from. I just wanted to sort of show why some pricing is the way it is from the other side of the fence, as it were, maybe try and get it into the air that gil changing hands doesn't mean we're raking in money hand over fist. Well in gross we are but in net it's a lot closer to breaking even.

And you know what, I can also only speak for my own place, so take what I say with a grain of salt as well when looking at other places.

Is it that people like spending gil to participate in RP or is that venues made that the norm after seeing the potential of making money off it? Cause it's already been stated multiple times in this thread that free RP venues are the norm in other DCs. Aether and Primal seem to be the exception so far.

[SturmChurro]

I don't know about anyone else, but if I want to buy food items in-game I'll usually just go to the marketboard.

[SaberMaxwell]

Is it that people like spending gil to participate in RP or is that venues made that the norm after seeing the potential of making money off it? Cause it's already been stated multiple times in this thread that free RP venues are the norm in other DCs. Aether and Primal seem to be the exception so far.

See, that's a good question. My venue has been in operation for a year now with this basic model, and we've had good months and bad months. I've never heard complaints of the practice of trading in real gil till today in this thread, actually. Frequently in addition to paying for food and drink, our bartenders get tipped pretty handsomely too, and we have no mandates regarding tipping whatsoever, we don't even track tip earnings we just hear the occasional "holy jeeze this guy tipped me for 100k" sometimes lol.

I'm not an expert in what other venues do though. I dunno if hourly wages are regular at all etc. I suppose we'll see when dc visit is a thing if it's just culture or if people value it as part of the rp scene.

[Keramory]

So update on the whole RP thing for you other weridos like myself who don't get it. Bartenders don't seem to accept fish as payment for their NPC bought drinks. From what I remember in these sorts of medieval settings, bartering with items was common practice. But these fancy pants places with their heretical electricity apparently think they're above that.

I'll update you more as I continue my investigation. I'm gonna find out tonight if a foot rub requires me to unequip my shoes

[Saefinn]

snip

No, by all means I appreciate your perspective and I realise you can only represent yourself and you seem quite conscientious on these things. So if anything it allows me to try and better look at it from another angle.

When people are talking about running RP like a business, it sounds like like people trying to generate money for profit especially when their mark up is rather...high. My obvious notes of concern with it being the norm is a payment wall gatekeeping RP, room for people to exploit RP for money and a situation where there's very little to accommodate RPers unless they're willing to pay. But if it's something the general community there is happy with, then it's hard for me to say it's wrong for said community, at least in the case of people who're in it for the RP and not the money.

Staffing can have its challenges, I can relate but we've had ours in check for our FC tavern for about a year now. I can relate in that I experienced burnout when I was doing too much as a bar person. We've got it set up help avoid burn out. With the market event I help run, staffing hasn't been an issue during the time I've been involved with it.

I guess the way it works well for us at our tavern is that we treat it as an RP scenario, like it's you're writing slice-of-life, meaning character development can happen between staff, it can happen between staff and regulars and people can make new IC friends through their interactions as staff and things like that can be a hook. One of the characters I serve on has become friends with another member of staff and it has create some good writing between then and this is to the point where I almost exclusively use that character as staff at the moment because I am invested and then it doesn't feel like it's work and she is getting good character development out of some of her other interactions there too. Guests still get attended to, and we help promote interactions with guests too, it's how we end up with regulars. And that also leads to RP away from the bar, because are part of our group we run plots and characters get tied up into each others plots through various social interactions. And this is stuff that can happen for both staff and guests.

There are costs for us as well because there are things that we do that require it (even if we don't stack up items to give out), but we keep our FC bank topped up and are able to front those costs. And we also have omnicrafters who can help us from delving too deep into that.

However,, it does sound like you guys have something that's working for you, but from what you say there is a demand for people to spend their gil like that. Aren't people And if it's the norm, aren't people worried it gatekeeps out potential RPers out from social venues?

So update on the whole RP thing for you other weridos like myself who don't get it. Bartenders don't seem to accept fish as payment for their NPC bought drinks. From what I remember in these sorts of medieval settings, bartering with items was common practice. But these fancy pants places with their heretical electricity apparently think they're above that.

I'll update you more as I continue my investigation. I'm gonna find out tonight if a foot rub requires me to unequip my shoes

People can normally smell a troll from a mile off. They REALLY stand out. You don't get it, it's fine, not everybody has to. It's just a thing.

But I suspect even then you might not have much success especially at venues that charge real gil.

[Breezelyn]

Man, forums doesn't disappoint with blowing everything out of proportion more than it should be. If you don't like certain RP venues and what they do, don't give them your business? Don't attend? Block the ad(s) via blacklist with the character name(s) involved. Can stay in your own server and not bother with it. If said venue is doing something you feel is 'wrong', then talk to the person (or people) running it. Blasting them on here because of the practices they're doing isn't ok. They're not doing anything illegal as I've skimmed the website the OP provided. They don't provide erp services (which is good imo), so leave them be.

If you disagree with them, that's fine. If you feel you can do better, open your own RP venue and prove yourself. Let people have fun, gosh.

[Theodric]

Equally, if people don't want feedback on something they're doing then they probably shouldn't be posting it on a public platform where almost anyone with an account for the game can comment. The feedback should be constructive, of course - but for the most part it seems to be.

[Archpoet]

snip

Thank you for posting this.

I have made my position clear, as have others on my behalf, and many of the qualifying reasons for (can't believe I'm even saying this) requiring a payment for goods and services rendered are really obvious and shouldn't require explanation. For a while there, it seemed to me that their intent was to brow beat people into adopting their view by continuing to post inane walls of text rehashing the same tired old argument about steaks, all the while pontificating about, and demanding justification for how other people play this game.

Yet, it is 100% expected and perfectly acceptable for both parties (consumer and vendor) to make gains from the transactional relationship in a retail business. No one must go into debt, work doubly hard, sacrifice or martyr themselves for the sake of providing a venue to fellow RPers. We are not running a 5-star charity, after all. And, contrary to what certain members of this forum would have you believe, providing a needed service to (and therefore, helping) the RP community and charging gil for said service are not mutually exclusive, no matter what they imagine it to be.

Equally, if people don't want feedback on something they're doing...

Feedback is one thing, but this is different than that. This is trying to force their world view on others plain and simple, and when that didn't work, demanding justification for anyone doing anything different than what they do. So, no, not equally. This would be like someone who comments on other people's appearances simply because their appearance lies within a public forum, (i.e. sight). Are you that person?

Don't get me wrong, you can all bump this thread forever as far as I'm concerned. (PR obvi!)
But lets be really honest, this should have long been a dead thread by now, and this is all just necro.

[Saefinn]

Nobody is forcing anything. Having an opinion contrary to another and forming an argument against it is not forcing an opinion. Just because people disagree or have points contrary to another doesn't mean they're forcing anything.

If anything I've learned something from the exchange. Because I didn't know this was a legit thing. Whilst there are concerns it does raise, if this is what these data centers want out of those RP communities, as I said in my previous post, I can't really say it's bad for those communities. And my only encouragement would be to those who are on those data centers who don't like it and want to get involved with RP, there are datacentres where it isn't the norm and consider moving there or try your own thing. For those who're happy, obviously, do your thing.