The Savage loot design makes it a burdensome chore that's less fun than it could be

[Vyrerus]

Ideas for Savage

I can understand wanting to get your gear more quickly, and then being able to keep gearing everything, but it's largely unnecessary in the first place, so I don't see them wanting to shorten the time players spend with Savage anymore than it already has been.

As much as a lot of raiders strive to get BIS gear, it's really not the be all end all, except when you want to go do an Ultimate, but even then, in later patches better gear comes out that's actually at the Ultimate's level sync cap, so with the exception of a few pieces, there's not a lot to be gained from having BIS from a Savage raid tier.

This is a game of vertical progression, so all gear that is the best, at one point loses its status as the best. The easier it becomes to get, the more people will expect you to have it. Before long you would be seeing Party Finders that require you to have your BIS on the job you want to play, if you even want to farm. With the changes you suggest, this would happen relatively early each tier, causing more people to struggle to be able to even join PF groups. This is in spite of the fact that you only really need i510 gear to clear the Savage tier at a minimum. I'd rather not see that happen.

I mean, I won't pretend XIV's gearing system is perfect, but the way it has become in Shadowbringers definitely favors static oriented play over PF trials by rando. Someone else said it already, but I would also love for them to not impact loot for the rest of the party if a vet who's already cleared comes to help. It's really common for statics to have people miss days, and if the group is really hard up about getting two chests over actually clearing and getting anything at all, a lot of people opt to just lose for the week. They've already shown us that people who've already had the chance to roll on loot can't even see the chest when it opens, so I don't get why they feel the need to gut the amount of loot. I suppose it would be to encourage statics to have their usual members come back in and clear. And I guess also to cut down on carry/sell runs.

[Kuroka]

Very well written post, but i bet itll get torn apart anyways...

Savage is much more fun during the narrow window where it unlocks each patch cycle.

The Savage environment is more enjoyable during the "x.x8" patches that remove the lockouts from Savage loot and floor progression order, because players can freely practice the floor that they want to, and experienced players can freely join parties to help out at any time of the week.

This is a huge problem overall in this game, the low caps to hold us back, slow us down and force us to stay subbed longer...

If all caps would stay monthly or at least for two weeks, it would already give us much more space to breath...

I often catch myself thinking of not bothering with anything as im capped on all tome and cant get anymore tokken - evne IF i wanna do stuff it feels so wasted. Its no help everything that rewards exp is wasted as well once youre capped on all jobs...

I recall the most fun ive ever had on long term was before 4.0 hit, those weeks where all caps were off and we could earn like 10000 tome if we wanted - i never run that many dungeons again, not even for leveling.


For stretching our gametime, it would already help if we could earn tome per role instead of per char - split the merchants into tank/dps/heal and the tome into blue, red and green tome of whatever... once the gear is outdated merge into one.

To slow us down is silly as long there is crafted gear, plenty ppl just grab a full crafted set and only grab whatever freebee they get on the way...

For the savage floors, it would be already enough if you need to clear in order ONCE and are free after that, or if you need to clear all floors to enter the following week or forfeit your loot (if ppl just bother for chest n weapon this would make 0 difference for them while others could farm more freely).


But your ideas are really nice... its not like ppl could do less then literally raid logging anyways....


EDIT:

Outside the loot restrictions which I think do suck. meaning friends can't help you clear if they've already cleared that week which kinda goes against the whole point of an mmo. playing together, playing with friends etc.

Exactly this. Same for me on Ex primals, i did have to kill it 100+ times and never got my mount, i dont feel like doing it with an friend another 30+ as its already devoid of any fun...

if the community wasnt so entitled or selfish the raid finder tool would be much more successful.. but over here that hasnt really worked well since Sophia and Zurven Ex. (Zurven the raid finder actually ended up being better than party finder because every pf group was a 1 tank skip soar or disband that never almost never worked out.)

Oh yes i remember the sweet times. No waiting for ages till the PF filled, no ridiculous demands, no "ik there are 10 groups already but i wanna make my own!" ... sure there were problems too, like that one jerk L. M. who tried to tank it as bot - he was infamous among the eu dc xD But overall it was nice to just... do, or at least try it.

[DrWho2010]

this really is just a case of i want more more more faster faster faster me me me me.

[Dzian]

Outside the loot restrictions which I think do suck. meaning friends can't help you clear if they've already cleared that week which kinda goes against the whole point of an mmo. playing together, playing with friends etc.

The biggest issues are more community related than design related which can be evidenced just by coparing na/eu with the jp side. the systems in place are the same but the results are very different. Raid Finder actually works over there or it did last i checked, because of the community mentality. there everyone actively works together and won't queue if they cant contribute enough... here everyone queues cos theyre entiled to be carried by everyone else and when you get 6-8 people matched up all expecting to be carried by the rest the end result is obviousy not positive.

the second thing with the community here is playerconnections are often superficial. that static you form today will likely break apart in a couple of weeks because of the superficial nature of the connections involved. you might clear fight 1 come back a few days later to clear fight 2 and find half your static has upped and left nad already done fight 2 with another static because impatience and selfishness.

which then leads to a thrid issue that there's generally a decent size pool of players who would like to do savage contents and such but every static you see expects you to play 25 hours a day 8 days a week. which puts many a lot of those potentital players completely off.. but at the same time if you formed a static that only operated 3 hours every sunday.. then again you'd probably find alot more people interested but still struggle as people would get imaptient and want to clear it faster and thus keep bailing on your group the second an opportunity arose..

The tools are in place to make savage accessible to everyone whenever they choose. the problem is the western community at large. if the community wasnt so entitled or selfish the raid finder tool would be much more successful.. but over here that hasnt really worked well since Sophia and Zurven Ex. (Zurven the raid finder actually ended up being better than party finder because every pf group was a 1 tank skip soar or disband that never almost never worked out.)

I do think the loot restrictions suck and could use adjustments so if you do log on on a saturday and find your friends cleared it on wednesday they can still help you get your weekly.. but the community is the bigger problem.

[ItMe]

For stretching our gametime, it would already help if we could earn tome per role instead of per char - split the merchants into tank/dps/heal and the tome into blue, red and green tome of whatever... once the gear is outdated merge into one.

That is actually a very interesting idea.
I know it would allow me to have more fun as I wouldn't have as much of a dilemma about which job to main each tier (though I still would unless they also changed how getting the tome weapon works).
It would def having me run Savage more and more consistently, that's for sure.
And this would help with 14's issue of side jobs being harder to gear.

Outside the loot restrictions which I think do suck. meaning friends can't help you clear if they've already cleared that week which kinda goes against the whole point of an mmo. playing together, playing with friends etc.

Def. God this bugs me.
Especially since in my friend group some of us work nights, some are in school, and some live in other countries, so we tend to play a little asynchronously and if someone was pugging on their own and happened to get a clear... oop...

The biggest issues are more community related than design related which can be evidenced just by coparing na/eu with the jp side. the systems in place are the same but the results are very different. Raid Finder actually works over there or it did last i checked, because of the community mentality. there everyone actively works together and won't queue if they cant contribute enough... here everyone queues cos theyre entiled to be carried by everyone else and when you get 6-8 people matched up all expecting to be carried by the rest the end result is obviousy not positive.

A big part of that is that JP uses macros.
When I was on Tonberry I'd drop this as we got into E3S and everyone would be able to see what's expected of them, call out what position they wanted, and we'd knock it out in one pull.






In the US (can't speak for the EU) there's hardly any talk of strats before a fight, outside of dropping a way mark and everyone setting clock positions and groups A and B, but this is inadequate and problematic when there are so many and people often come in on different pages. I still haven't been able to pug past brambles in E9S... : (

[Stepjam]

I mean the strats are "discussed" in the party finder, NA doesn't use macros because they don't need to, you should already know what the strats are from the PF description. JP uses strat macros because they get clears through DF, so you don't have a set plan before the party forms.

[ItMe]

I mean the strats are "discussed" in the party finder, NA doesn't use macros because they don't need to, you should already know what the strats are from the PF description. JP uses strat macros because they get clears through DF, so you don't have a set plan before the party forms.

I cannot tell you how many times my PF descriptions have been blatantly ignored.
Maybe on paper that should be the solution, but in practice it is not.
Hell, I can't even put "please have materia" in the PF description and expect everyone to observe it.

Heck, on Tonberry wether I was doing reclears in DF, RF, or even PF we used macros to get everyone on the same page, because while it's not necessary it made everyone's life easier.

[smol_cofe]

I just dislike how party finder groups have one player per job lock choice but the loot table doesn't really reflect that, even the content itself gives damage up for one per role and some statics have that preference as well. Speaking atleast for a part of the EU servers, I'd prefer random drops each boss plus one of the tome items, and two different weapons on the last boss with a lock out after you win a piece each floor. If they would design encounters to encourage that type of group knowing people will usually take that option then I think random is better, but keep the one book as well. I also think it would encourage more players to try out and maybe become savage players while still not having a garunteed faster gearing up progression in some cases, but it would be faster in general if you play all jobs/roles which is a con to be fair.

[Stepjam]

I cannot tell you how many times my PF descriptions have been blatantly ignored.
Maybe on paper that should be the solution, but in practice it is not.

If people ignore PFs, they are gonna ignore macros. They are gonna do what they want and there's not really much you can do to change them.

[ItMe]

If people ignore PFs, they are gonna ignore macros. They are gonna do what they want and there's not really much you can do to change them.

I have had far and above more success with macros, but I guess your mileage has just varied.
But at this point we've embarked on a tangent that doesn't benefit the topic of the thread, so I'm probably just gonna leave it like this.