Will there be an official response about Party Finder advertising?

[Keramory]

Honestly, while I don't care about RP and ERP by itself, I increasingly hoping the ERP nonsense gets the boot off PF now. I'm sorry foolish people ruined it for others but why should anyone be seeing carrd links to escort services being 1/3rd of the PF? Although that was a brief period, seeing that in such a large amount was absolutely insane.

The reason why you're not seeing the GM's give a direct answer is simply because there isn't much of a blanket approach on this. Obviously people can and should be able to RP. Maybe seeing a single 18+ "Club" or Tavern being w.e. But seeing it spammed and everywhere with very clear indications of simply cyber sex took it too far. I have zero sympathy for that getting axed. And while I feel bad for those getting caught in the cross fire and HOPE the GM's get better and how they're selectively picking what's okay... I'd rather live with that reality then letting the garbage I mentioned above become rampant again.

[Saefinn]

They will never answer aside from "We treat each case on an individual basis, and therefore cannot give a definitive answer." or that "Provided you adhere to the TOS then it is allowed"


Such things you won't get an answer for through GMs, really. Stuff like this will get better results through stuff such as Q&As, at least until they give a definitive answer which puts them in a position where they feel they need to revise their TOS. But then they won't do that until they find alternative avenues like parental control or reworking Fellowships as this will lead to too much of an outcry.

It is something YoshiP has covered in an interview, or at least in reference to in game brothels. He pointed straight to the part of the ToS that suggests people will get banned for illegal activity. He put emphasis on law and the laws of different countries they have to support and that the have the resources for the law in most countries when investigating these. He urged that people report them when they see them advertised so they can investigate them on a case-by-case basis.

So my take for that is: keep it legal. Break the law and you're putting yourself at risk.

This is why my emphasis earlier in the thread is, if people see it, report it, don't take it into their own hands, It sounds like they have a strategy for dealing with it in the confines of the law. If you see nothing happen then chances are they've not been found guilty of wrong doing. And taking matters into your own hands could mean you're harassing somebody who's innocent or end up breaking the ToS because harassment is against the ToS.

[Deceptus]

It is something YoshiP has covered in an interview, or at least in reference to in game brothels. He pointed straight to the part of the ToS that suggests people will get banned for illegal activity. He put emphasis on law and the laws of different countries they have to support and that the have the resources for the law in most countries when investigating these. He urged that people report them when they see them advertised so they can investigate them on a case-by-case basis.

So my take for that is: keep it legal. Break the law and you're putting yourself at risk.

That's the point of a TOS, the FFXIV literally makes whatever in-game law they want to because it's their game. Outright RMT has been banned via the TOS since day one. They're simply not policing it.

And trying to say that people are "going around it" by linking to a discord first . . . That's like saying you're not paying for an escort, you're paying hundreds of dollars for a condom and the escort comes free.

[Themarvin]

It is something YoshiP has covered in an interview, or at least in reference to in game brothels. He pointed straight to the part of the ToS that suggests people will get banned for illegal activity. He put emphasis on law and the laws of different countries they have to support and that the have the resources for the law in most countries when investigating these. He urged that people report them when they see them advertised so they can investigate them on a case-by-case basis.

So my take for that is: keep it legal. Break the law and you're putting yourself at risk.

This is why my emphasis earlier in the thread is, if people see it, report it, don't take it into their own hands, It sounds like they have a strategy for dealing with it in the confines of the law. If you see nothing happen then chances are they've not been found guilty of wrong doing. And taking matters into your own hands could mean you're harassing somebody who's innocent or end up breaking the ToS because harassment is against the ToS.

It answers all your questions, if an angry parent end reporting someone, as their 14 year old kid who apparently fooled a grown up, report in, then SE would lay flat down on the back and severe punish the one that had whatever PF or Ad. going no questions asked except for an explanation.

You would be walking on thin ice, if you need to run these ads and it runs you at personal risk as well, as in +18 or +21 signs... often can and will be ignored and then you would or could had end violated someone, who is not yet responsible for his or her actions, keep in mind for taking it elsewhere such as Discord, Discord ToS with this is actually having it as an addendum to their ToS as well as what not to do, if you take it elsewhere, and would or could end being punished even harder if you end violating discord.

[Kaurhz]

It is something YoshiP has covered in an interview, or at least in reference to in game brothels. He pointed straight to the part of the ToS that suggests people will get banned for illegal activity. He put emphasis on law and the laws of different countries they have to support and that the have the resources for the law in most countries when investigating these. He urged that people report them when they see them advertised so they can investigate them on a case-by-case basis.

So my take for that is: keep it legal. Break the law and you're putting yourself at risk.

This is why my emphasis earlier in the thread is, if people see it, report it, don't take it into their own hands, It sounds like they have a strategy for dealing with it in the confines of the law. If you see nothing happen then chances are they've not been found guilty of wrong doing. And taking matters into your own hands could mean you're harassing somebody who's innocent or end up breaking the ToS because harassment is against the ToS.

Yes in the context of brothels. This is encompassing of any forms of mature RP being put in the Party Finder, alongside the other nonsense like RMT or such. I just find that their lack of clarity or forthright-edness with respect to the Terms of Service makes it turn into a situation where such rules may as well not exist until the situation utterly calls for it; going largely ignored in the meanwhile until people are punished for it; which is not a way to go. Not everyone will or does have reference to such interviews on hand.

I'm personally well aware of what to, and what not to do, but not a lot of people have the luxury of being able to read between the lines when it comes to the Terms, including those who 'enforce' them. The simple fact some of these still occur in the Party Finder means the rules aren't explicit enough, especially for those whom they concern.

Such things can be said in as much detail as they feel like throwing out, but until that has been inserted into the Terms of Service, then it has nigh on very little meaning for the reason of people won't simply have as much ease of access with it as they do the Terms of Service. Someone has asked the question before, and I daresay the question will appear again, albeit probably more direct. The simple fact people have felt the need the ask the question in the first place, and the simple fact as to people are asking the selfsame questions on the Forums just means it isn't quite up to par with community interpretation.

[Saefinn]

That's the point of a TOS, the FFXIV literally makes whatever in-game law they want to because it's their game. Outright RMT has been banned via the TOS since day one. They're simply not policing it.

And trying to say that people are "going around it" by linking to a discord first . . . That's like saying you're not paying for an escort, you're paying hundreds of dollars for a condom and the escort comes free.

I this specific case, I think YoshiP was clear on this one. He's referring specifically to the laws of the countries players are from rather than any in game. He avoids saying "they're okay" but goes out of his way to say they will take action against accounts that violate the law, all in the context of in game brothels.

But I know they're often very vague and it's frustrating as heck when it comes to tying down a good guideline of what we can and can't do. But this is one that felt clear. It seems fine as long as no laws are violated.

Yes in the context of brothels. This is encompassing of any forms of mature RP being put in the Party Finder, alongside the other nonsense like RMT or such. I just find that their lack of clarity or forthright-edness with respect to the Terms of Service makes it turn into a situation where such rules may as well not exist until the situation utterly calls for it; going largely ignored in the meanwhile until people are punished for it; which is not a way to go. Not everyone will or does have reference to such interviews on hand.

I'm personally well aware of what to, and what not to do, but not a lot of people have the luxury of being able to read between the lines when it comes to the Terms, including those who 'enforce' them. The simple fact some of these still occur in the Party Finder means the rules aren't explicit enough, especially for those whom they concern.

For sure, I think more clarity is always a good thing and I know they're not great about it for much of the ToS.

On the one hand, I get the vagueness, people will lawyer the heck out of the rules as much as they can and no rule set can account for every circumstance they may need to act on and you want to be in a position where you can refer to a rule they are breaking, especially as I am sure there are legal problems at play too.

On the other hand, it's not a user friendly approach and sometimes it means we end up relying on clarification at Q&A, the brothel one isn't the first time YoshiP has had to clarify. The topic of mods and third party tools was another, for example. And this isn't reliable either.

[Awha]

Just wondering are people against ERP because of the children? I do not rp or erp but what people I do find it strange that some wish to police some parts of the community and judge them for how they may find enjoyment.

[Keramory]

Just wondering are people against ERP because of the children? I do not rp or erp but what people I do find it strange that some wish to police some parts of the community and judge them for how they may find enjoyment.

I think the children part is very real and is likely the huge cause of the pushback. I'll be 100% honest though, there's other feelings mixed in there for myself and likely others. ERP by itself, no issue. Someone being a mithra in a back alley for some quick cash was a thing in FFXI. No judgement there. Balmung's Uldah or PF being decked with carrd escort pages? Now I have a problem with it and it's a little hard to come to words with it. I feel like saying it feels dirty or gross is too mean and incorrect, but such blatant in your face spam of it makes you question a little of what you're playing even if you don't partake. "It's too much" is the closest explanation I have for my feeling on the whole PF issue.

Btw fun fact (and completely against my point), did you know 1.0 basically had a brothal in the game itself? For anyone for all this, bring that up more XD

[EtherRose]

No, no and no. RP advertisements don't belong in the PF at all and deserve to reported non-stop. The PF is a feature meant to search for a party to clear content. Not RP. If you aren't using the feature as intended and you get reported don't act all surprised when it nips you in the butt. ERP or not - Nothing RP'ish should be in the PF, period.

[Saefinn]

No, no and no. RP advertisements don't belong in the PF at all and deserve to reported non-stop. The PF is a feature meant to search for a party to clear content. Not RP. If you aren't using the feature as intended and you get reported don't act all surprised when it nips you in the butt. ERP or not - Nothing RP'ish should be in the PF, period.

This game's moderation disagrees with you on that one:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5512931

They reversed the actions taken against RPers when 1 GM was dishing out warnings to RPers in error. The ERP side is a little more hazy because of questions of the game's rating, the legal aspect etc, but RP is not an issue.

There's an 'Other' tab, which is appropriate for such listings.