Will there be an official response about Party Finder advertising?

[larci]

In light of the past week, one demograph of players seems to have been the target of reports intended to cause obstruction or distress or punishment through weaponising the terms of service in stretching the interpretations of what is considered inappropriate or offensive, or by making bad faith arguments trying to shut down all RP venues because "you can't verify if someone is 18+ in a teen rated game"

There are now throwaway Lv 1 characters who bought ARR scenario skip just to advocate vigilantism and inciting witch hunts against any or all RP venues under the suspicion of potentially ERP

I have witnessed players advertising with a carrd/website link that explicitly offer ERP services, but having left out the acronym "ERP" from their PF comment they have been safely advertising for the past few days now

ERP isn't going to go away, but a lot of innocent RP players have been caught up in this and GM resources are being spent on investigating reports that are at best malicious compliance

Are there plans to address this in more clearer terms?

[van_arn]

Just because you don't like what people are saying doesn't mean it's an argument made in bad faith.

They've already answered this, besides. The TOS is in effect every time you type something, and if it's read by the wrong person and they're offended they have every right to file a report. The GM might make the final decision, but I don't think anyone wants to play the "but maybe" game with a GM.

As for that PF ad, I enjoy looking forward to the fallout of venues advertised publicly getting invaded by the public. If you don't want the public to sneak in and spill coffee on the buffet, then don't advertise in public and don't let the public in.

And yes, that includes kids.

[larci]

Just because you don't like what people are saying doesn't mean it's an argument made in bad faith.

"Let's nuke all RP places because these venues might be like those other venues base on a few similarities"

Where did you get the idea I liked or didn't like what was said? And does me not liking something means it's any less of a bad faith argument or it lends your own argument more credit?

They've already answered this,

No, they answered "a certain GM shouldn't have told people to advertise their RP venues by shouting in towns instead of using PF"

You didn't read the first part of what I said so I am not surprised you didn't read the second part, here it is paraphrased for you again

"If I see ERP being advertised in their linked websites/carrd but leave "ERP" out of their PF comments, is this where the GMs have drawn the line because these venues are presumably being reported and no action has been taken"

As for that PF ad, I enjoy looking forward to the fallout of venues advertised publicly getting invaded by the public. If you don't want the public to sneak in and spill coffee on the buffet, then don't advertise in public and don't let the public in.

Going out of your way to physically visit each venues in game hoping to be sent tells offering services just to file reports is vigilantism, your purported goal is no longer getting ERP advertising off of PF, you are now choosing to inspect venues as an activity in hopes of shutting down on ERP

It is nice that you have found a safespace with your raider friends where everyone agrees with each other, but try defending your argument or refuting mine with some actual rationale rather than trying to own some libs with theatrics

And yes, that includes GCBTW.

[Mechnikov_the_Jotunn]

I just want to start by saying I think it's fascinating that the TOS was once weaponized against elitism and was praised for it, and now that it's being used to target the RP community it's a malicious act.

I agree that it's excessive to vigilante justice this entire subject, I wouldn't patrol to get people banned for that feels like a really odd sort of volunteer work. That being said having to see the countless brothels and ads on the PF page has been annoying since Shb's launch and it's nothing a tab wouldn't fix, mind you.

It is nice that you have found a safespace with your raider friends where everyone agrees with each other, but try defending your argument or refuting mine with some actual rationale rather than trying to own some libs with theatrics[/I]

Only we're not talking about raiders or hardcore versus casual. We're talking about the whole ESRB and online ratings. SE is potentially making a stand against ERP because of kids who might wander into one of these advertised brothels. I'll put it to you this way, let's take a Bouncer at a bar. They need to ID each and every person who comes in because if someone is caught underage, they get in huge trouble. It's on that staff to do it, not on the person underage nor on the "community" to moderate itself.

I am as sympathetic as I can be, given that I've seen people weaponize the TOS against being asked to dps as a healer for some time now. I'm not surprised that SE is taking this stance in the slightest since when you read the ToS it is not allowed as you do not need to be 18+ to play the game.

Will there be underground brothels? Of course. But they're underground because they're not typically allowed in a game where a 14 year old could be playing.

I agree that there should be some kind of statement about what is and isn't allowed in Party Finder as I can certainly understand the trepidation on posting something if it means you might get pulled into GM Jail. The argument of "It's not going away so why do anything about it" is juvenile at best. SE has to moderate itself because there can issues if it doesn't. As always it's the lack of consistency that I think has people confused. These ads have persisted for a while, so why now? If people can do something without repercussion I don't blame them for thinking it must be allowed.

I think people should be able to RP in peace without fear of being banned or judgment.

"-Signed, a Filthy Elitist Raider"

Also PF isn't a safe space, if it were I wouldn't get lied to about who has or hasn't cleared E11 Savage.

[Shibi]

While I can see that SE might not like to be nailed down with what is and isn't allowed -- as that removes their room to deal with egrarious cases;

In this case - with the GM mistakenly muddying the waters and through his erroneous actions causing confusion and emboldening those who would harass others - SE really do need to firm this up.

For the sake of clarity, a set of clearer rules regarding advertising RP now needs to be made, especially around /shout and party finder.

This wouldn't have been a problem if the GM hadn't of erred.

[larci]

I just want to start by saying I think it's fascinating that the TOS was once weaponized against elitism and was praised for it, and now that it's being used to target the RP community it's a malicious act.

One person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist, what one group with a victim complex feels towards another group with a victim complex is not relevant to my original question, I understand there are grievances and this casual/RP vs hardcore/pve feud has been in existence long before FFXIV and will persist long after

A snowflake healer who doesn't want to dps isn't any different to a snowflake raider who wants to finish every roulette in under 15 minutes, they're the same cherrypicked examples that gets passed around for the outrage because miserable people love feeding off of negativity, because work on yourself is actually a lot of effort
It just baffles me the lengths people will go to for gotchas and one-upping over some adopted self-identity out of tribalism

I'm not surprised that SE is taking this stance in the slightest since when you read the ToS it is not allowed as you do not need to be 18+ to play the game.

Except where they didn't, all this has achieved is the language has become discreet and suggestive and the ERP phrasing has turned into 18+ and only mentioned on their linked websites/carrds, where the GM don't bother looking because it is inadmissible

During Aether peak time on Saturday I saw the same PF numbers before the report spree, now the 13 year olds of this game are happily not understanding those Pinnochio jokes from Shrek
And guess what, the GMs won't do anything beyond this anymore because those same ads have ran for 5+ hours today, with duplicates

Because who the hell wants a day job babysitting two groups of adults with no social skills that won't get along

- Signed, a person who tried out RP and found it boring, tried out raiding and found it boring (yes savage yes purple, no literally no one cares about your speed runs)

Also I wasn't calling PF a safespace, it's a reference you didn't understand

For the sake of clarity, a set of clearer rules regarding advertising RP now needs to be made, especially around /shout and party finder.

I want an official response because I need this to end (even for a little while) because this celebration of a hollow victory or outcry of being harassed is more annoying than the brothel ads themselves, although it is increasingly looking like "leave ERP out of your PF search comment, we're not going to look at your links unless you make it way front and center"

[Kuroka]

At least those are at the "other" tab and not right in Ex roulett etc....

[Mechnikov_the_Jotunn]

Except where they didn't, all this has achieved is the language has become discreet and suggestive and the ERP phrasing has turned into 18+ and only mentioned on their linked websites/carrds, where the GM don't bother looking because it is inadmissible

And that'll be what I think is the end situation of this. I don't foresee ERP going anywhere just as you said, but as long as SE comes down hard on anything blatantly advertising it it'll be enough. Same thing as websites asking if you're over 18 and you put that you were born in 1901.

I also agree with your statement of the two sides looking for something easy to strawman, and hoist up as the pinnacle representative of the side they don't like.

The social aspects aside, I don't think it changes that it's not about what people want; as much as people consider this "their game" they are but one sub in it and thus whatever SE states goes and the actions of one Mod has just called it all into question.

I think this'll blow over, RP will find its way safely onto the PF tab, maybe moreso in the "other" option, and things will remain as blatantly unclear as always.

[Themarvin]

They don't have to give an answer, all of it is in the ToS and recent events have had a GM explaining to someone who apparently got reported and how and it is not for it's intend.

People are very wrong, if they think that this kind of player riot done by a few is a wise thing to do, first of you can't verify if people is 18+, you could end tampering with a minor very easy as hormones run crazy from 11-12 to 17 years old, and you could end getting stamped as a sexual offender, likewise, this should not be a possible gateway, for creepy old women or men, to hurl them onto minors, it is certainly not what the game is about and it is certainly not what SE is interested in at all.

[LianaThorne]

I want an official response because I need this to end (even for a little while) because this celebration of a hollow victory or outcry of being harassed is more annoying than the brothel ads themselves, although it is increasingly looking like "leave ERP out of your PF search comment, we're not going to look at your links unless you make it way front and center"

Just saying, I'm sorry that you need something to end but one person needing something to end isn't going to fix anything. If you want a quick response to your specific issue, you need this to get blown up to the same proportion as the original PF thread. Also, not sure if you read in there, but a GM did reply in that thread (here) saying that they will continue to take down all PF ads that are inappropriate and that their existing policy hasn't changed.

Second, you're personally the second person I've heard having issues with people like this, but that's really it. Trolls and people on a power trip are gonna take advantage of the situation because it's affected a lot of people on a personal/emotional level. I'm not at all saying that this is okay, but it is definitely something to be expected. Some people legitimately have no lives. If you're getting harassed, threaten to report them to staff/call a GM and leave it at that. That's how the other person I've spoken to got rid of the couple people at his venue. They aren't looking to get banned over this stuff.

I also firmly agree with the fact that having full blown "Hey we have ERP here" ads should not be a thing and that the responsibility of knowing who is going in and out of your venue is on the heads of the staff in charge of the venue. Like the comparison to a bouncer in a club (coming from someone who was stupid in her younger years and outsmarted several), it's on the staff (not the patron) to keep the place safe and legal. The one time I got caught, the fault was put entirely on that bouncer and he was fired. I got off with a warning.

I'm not at all saying "Let's burn down all the ERP venues", but it should definitely be moved underground or at least onto a Discord or something with reliable people in charge who can ensure that it stays as safe as possible. A lot of people are really quick to say "Oh it's not a big deal or you don't have a way to verify people", but that's not gonna be good enough if a 14 year old comes into your club where you're working as a court, hires you and you two go at it, their parents catch them and they choose to press charges against you because you are still engaging in cybersex crimes with a minor and view you as a predator. If anyone reading this doesn't see anything wrong with that, that's on you and you alone, but I personally wouldn't want to risk that happening to me and ruining my entire life because of a fake job in an MMO.