You dont need the story.

[SturmChurro]

I don't really mind if people want to skip the story entirely. Similarly, for every other preference like following the story fully and considering a crucial part of the game. People must do what feels like the correct thing for them, each of us is an individual and each of us has different reasons for doing things that most likely differ as much as our individual characters.

However, what I really doubt is that this (rather passionate community as whole) will disparage anyone who chooses to skip the story. For each troll post about skipping the story that expresses "woe is me, you are all horrible and want to force me to watch cutscenes" there are hundreds of posts that say "you do you". There may be individuals of course that do that, but I don't believe they represent the entire community.

Having said that, the quality of a post is in its details. Someone who claims fervently "the story is XYZ" is completely different from someone who says "I found/believe that the story is XYZ". While the former is an attempt to attach universal objective value to a subjective matter, the latter rather enforces that each of us has individual preferences, likes and dislikes. I suppose that also could be the difference between a troll post that is intentionally rude and attempts to stir flames (like the OP) and an honest attempt at discussion over something like this game's story.

No.. I have prior experience. Yes, I will bring it up yet again, apparently I had an "imaginary friend", "the game wasn't for me".. When I made a serious discussion thread about ARR (prior to pruning).

"The game isn't for you", "go play WoW", etc. are constants if a player chooses to dislike the story, and be public about it.

[linayar]

No.. I have prior experience. Yes, I will bring it up yet again, apparently I had an "imaginary friend", "the game wasn't for me".. When I made a serious discussion thread about ARR (prior to pruning).

"The game isn't for you", "go play WoW", etc. are constants if a player chooses to dislike the story, and be public about it.

Without knowing about (or remembering if I participated in) your "serious discussion thread about ARR (prior to pruning)," I will say that choosing to not dislike the story does not mean that the game is not for you.

However, if your dislike about the story is to such an extent that you want to change the role of the story in the game, then I would rather you find some other game that would give you enough satisfaction without the story so that you would leave FFXIV's story alone.

In other words, if you can tolerate the role of the story and still enjoy the game, then good for you. Otherwise, then of course there may be more serious disagreements.

[MagicAura]

Without knowing about (or remembering if I participated in) your "serious discussion thread about ARR (prior to pruning)," I will say that choosing to not dislike the story does not mean that the game is not for you.

However, if your dislike about the story is to such an extent that you want to change the role of the story in the game, then I would rather you find some other game that would give you enough satisfaction without the story so that you would leave FFXIV's story alone.

In other words, if you can tolerate the role of the story and still enjoy the game, then good for you. Otherwise, then of course there may be more serious disagreements.

Context is everything. As are the words one chooses to voice their opinions. What I really dislike is the notion "my opinion is objectively true" which is a fallacy. An opinion is a subjective thing as are likes and dislikes.

[SturmChurro]

Without knowing about (or remembering if I participated in) your "serious discussion thread about ARR (prior to pruning)," I will say that choosing to not dislike the story does not mean that the game is not for you.

However, if your dislike about the story is to such an extent that you want to change the role of the story in the game, then I would rather you find some other game that would give you enough satisfaction without the story so that you would leave FFXIV's story alone.

In other words, if you can tolerate the role of the story and still enjoy the game, then good for you. Otherwise, then of course there may be more serious disagreements.

I have BARELY made any threads, if I make a thread it's with the intention of it actually being serious. Actually, that was the singular thread I EVER made. The other two are technical issues.

The thing is people say "go play WoW", "this game isn't for you", for just talking about skipping either using a skip or simply skipping cutscenes. This is a constant, that is the general feedback players get for simply disliking the story. I am not saying EVERYONE does this, but it happens all the time regardless.

[Shougun]

No.. I have prior experience. Yes, I will bring it up yet again, apparently I had an "imaginary friend", "the game wasn't for me".. When I made a serious discussion thread about ARR (prior to pruning).

"The game isn't for you", "go play WoW", etc. are constants if a player chooses to dislike the story, and be public about it.

Before WoW did it's choose your expansion start, I was suggesting FFXIV do something similar in the sense that SE makes these alternate starts that jump start your gameplay experience and are designed a bit tighter (imo FFXIV's intro is a bit 'meh', to be fair some of WoW's are also meh lol, but I feel a few are neat and more grabbing - I'm talking post intro cutscene btw, not the cutscene in the beginning).

I was met with if you don't like the story then don't play the game. I had to clarify I do actually like the story (minus some bits here and there that felt like filler, some of it was pruned though) and I just think it's silly to force people through, literally, hundred + hours of story they are probably not interested in if they wanted to get into the tighter gameplay content sooner (those who were wouldn't be taking this optional start, most likely- and even if they did they have MSQ+ to enjoy it later).

If someone was excited for an expansion for content coming out in the expansion then having to do the like 60-90 hours for ARR and then about 30-50 hours for each expansion there after to catch up is more work than most "best RPGs of all time" games, some of those to near or actual 100% completion. To me it was "for those who are not as invested into the story yet and or need a more exciting hook, this could be neat". As it would be optional, and because of our MSQ+ system it wouldn't ruin the opportunity to go back (and would allow it to actually be content for current players as well since they could new game + it). It was made clear there wouldn't be a change to how story works with the game, if someone chose to alternate start they did and if they didn't they didn't the core building of the game wasn't to be changed- just allow different types of players, those who aren't sold on the 150+ hour pre-investment to get to the content they wanted for example (or those who need a more peppy start, since imo FFXIV's start could use with some more pizazz). It's one thing to have 20-40 hours of investment needed or staying current with content vs having 100-200 movies worth of story before you're where you wanted to be (for example I thought it might drop you off near the beginning of an expansion previous to the one that's out, so you had to do 1 expansion and then you got to the current one, this is also why I noted I said this before WoW's system since it seems like I almost wrote that system lol . . . ).

The response was very much of "no way, go some where else". Which I thought interesting since I was clear that the importance to the story wouldn't be changed, just some people could smoothly and logically get into the thick of it easier. To be fair not everyone who wasn't really into the idea was like that, not painting the entire response- but there was quite a few "leave!". Or I guess "buy the level and story skip potions" but I feel that's silly sell to players "buy the game, buy another game's worth of value so you can then get tossed roughly to the end" seems like such a poor solution and an easy way to lose players. The intend of the alternate start was to give them like an hour or two "getting the feel of the game" and a few objectives and ideas of what to do after, while also mixing up the intro to be a bit more directed and controlled with it's burn. Like when I first started I think I spent the first 10 hours in town just grabbing quests and talking to people and touching everything, you can absolutely and fairly blame it on me that I did that lol, but I would suggest I would have had more fun if the team had constructed an expanding and yet more exciting start (don't start players in the main town, etc). Also I've massive nostalgia to the whole start small go big experience which many, not all, of the WoW Starts had - of course some of those older ones are not as good now but like when I first arrived to the main cities from those little villages they put you in... MMM *snaps fingers* lol. That was perfect and is still an extremely fond memory. No such memory exists for FFXIV like that, at least for many many hours (there are some neat big areas later). If I was making a start at least one of them would HAVE to include that sense of expanding adventure (starting small, farm boy to the big city- not speaking story I'm talking about the general journey you take for the intro, if you argue "but at level 50 you are big, massive compared to level 1".. then that missed my point lol, I am aware of the growth your character makes over 80 levels and I'm not talking about the entire game I'm speaking strictly on the intro when I said that).

Of course I feel I've said a lot good about WoW and not so much about FFXIV so I would note basically as soon as things get moving I feel FFXIV gets better and better traction and WoW just loses it, so if you didn't get hooked in the beginning it's like "well, that's unfortunate, good luck now - I feel you wont still then" lol. Don't misunderstand the farm boy to city thing though, since WoW tosses you right into combat and depending on which race some silly fun mechanics (Goblin was cute, Worgon was nice but had WAY TOO MANY BUGS OH MY HOW CAN THAT BE ACCEPTABLE!?!?! FFXIV WOULDN'T ACCEPT THAT! lol). Some people like that it starts from such a small tiny candle flame (lvl 1) in the pacing and grip to the roaring fire (lvl 80), but I think - "at least start from a bit more torch, in the beigning, as an option?". Like when I think of a FF intro that just haunts me still is FFX. Sweet Thal... Sweeeeeeeeet Thal... Pretty much the intro that determined I would complete the rest of the game hell or high water. And I'm not talking about just the cutscene / music, which were stellar, it's even after that then you go through a series of interesting fights to learn the game (the whole intro is exciting, imo), and then finally they slap you into a small village space so you can get that feeling of growth again (small to big, Goblin quest line is maybe a bit like that if we were drawing intro-vibe parallels, of course FFX way more exciting lol, even though for seconds you were in a big area you still get growth of small to big, unlike say 'starting pretty much directly inside the main starting city'). Other FF have their own cool intros of course, I don't think there is one that I dislike (all tend to be quite nice), some of them set a nice maturity or whimsy. Say for example FFIX you get right into this mystery that leads into a fight that then is a comedy and then into a load of mini-games and the cutest freaking music ever with a fairly well directed path (which is a bit closer to what FFXIV does, but if it was going for the FFIX like intro I think it could still use some more polish).

Anyway.. we're all special . . .

[linayar]

Which I thought interesting since I was clear that the importance to the story wouldn't be changed, just some people could smoothly and logically get into the thick of it easier.

Once the story is optional or broken up like WoW, they don't have to care about it as much, and that's a slippery slope I'm not willing to risk just because someone can't afford to go through the story (even if they have to skip every cutscene and mash through every dialog box and/or pay to boost the earlier MSQ).

And the prime example of this is WoW. It's such a convoluted mess with how the story quests are so disconnected and certain quests just disappear or no longer require certain other quests on a much more frequent basis than FFXIV.

[Shougun]

Once the story is optional or broken up like WoW, they don't have to care about it as much, and that's a slippery slope I'm not willing to risk just because someone can't afford to go through the story (even if they have to skip every cutscene and mash through every dialog box and/or pay to boost the earlier MSQ).

And the prime example of this is WoW. It's such a convoluted mess with how the story quests are so disconnected and certain quests just disappear or no longer require certain other quests on a much more frequent basis than FFXIV.

I don't think WoW is a prime example, the story even in the old days was always all over the place (before level up characters (skip potions), or the alternate start). WoW's story was originally less retconned and weirdly anime (and not in the good way), but that's separate from the whole MSQ not important bit of WoW. WoW has always been a bit 'story smory' (OOH FANCY CUTSCENE, and then immediately back into 'story smory').

There is a potential they see story as not important after a bunch of people prove it (that's a big if, but we're assuming under your concern that SE sees that it makes sense not to care), but I doubt SE would do that (I assume they would always keep story as something they put a lot of effort into and bind to game, if some people skip some of that (like via an alternate start), which technically they already can it's just very heavy handed method (potions and or literally skipping scene after scene), then I think "if they want sure, game is still fine for me").

It's fine you think it's a risk but I don't think it's one and I don't think WoW is a good example of that (of an alternate start messing up the story) either since it's delivery has been pretty consistent in terms of "whatever if you do, whatever if you don't- we only partially pay attention to our own story anyways" - there wasn't really a sudden change past the retcon(ss). If anything you might argue they cared a bit more on presentation later with some fancy cutcscenes, even if it's still a bit wildly placed. I also think it's helpful SE sees why you say no, since then they could see "well if we just don't do that (disconnect the importance of story), they'll actually be fine" lol.

[SavishSalacious]

Once the story is optional or broken up like WoW, they don't have to care about it as much, and that's a slippery slope I'm not willing to risk just because someone can't afford to go through the story (even if they have to skip every cutscene and mash through every dialog box and/or pay to boost the earlier MSQ).

And the prime example of this is WoW. It's such a convoluted mess with how the story quests are so disconnected and certain quests just disappear or no longer require certain other quests on a much more frequent basis than FFXIV.

Why would you use wow as an example. the story of that game HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. You are just there to do fetch quests to get shiny pixels.

[linayar]

I don't think WoW is a prime example, the story even in the old days was always all over the place (before level up characters (skip potions), or the alternate start). WoW's story was originally less retconned and weirdly anime (and not in the good way), but that's separate from the whole MSQ not important bit of WoW. WoW has always been a bit 'story smory' (OOH FANCY CUTSCENE, and then immediately back into 'story smory').

There is a potential they see story as not important after a bunch of people prove it (that's a big if, but we're assuming under your concern that SE sees that it makes sense not to care), but I doubt SE would do that (I assume they would always keep story as something they put a lot of effort into and bind to game, if some people skip some of that (like via an alternate start), which technically they already can it's just very heavy handed method (potions and or literally skipping scene after scene), then I think "if they want sure, game is still fine for me").

It's fine you think it's a risk but I don't think it's one and I don't think WoW is a good example of that (of an alternate start messing up the story) either since it's delivery has been pretty consistent in terms of "whatever if you do, whatever if you don't" - there wasn't really a sudden change (if anything you might argue they cared a bit more on presentation later with some fancy cutcscenes, even if it's still a bit wildly placed). I also think it's helpful SE sees why you say no, since then they could see "well if we just don't do that (disconnect the importance of story), they'll actually be fine" lol.

It's a slippery slope because the idea here is based on feedback. You say they won't, but once they give up this idea that story quests are what drives content, and therefore content will be locked behind them and you have to do certain quests in order, then you open up to more requests by more incoming players who don't care about story to make it even more optional.

The other side to it is that it can introduce more bugs when you allow more variation. And yes, WoW is a prime example because there are several ways that a player can access an expansion's content, for example, and things could just break if you don't happen to have the right criteria and people sometimes cannot help you because their experiences may not be the same as you.

Why would you use wow as an example. the story of that game HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. You are just there to do fetch quests to get shiny pixels.

Yes, that's a fine example to use for my point.

[Shougun]

It's a slippery slope because the idea here is based on feedback. You say they won't, but once they give up this idea that story quests are what drives content, and therefore content will be locked behind them and you have to do certain quests in order, then you open up to more requests by more incoming players who don't care about story to make it even more optional.

The other side to it is that it can introduce more bugs when you allow more variation. And yes, WoW is a prime example because there are several ways that a player can access an expansion's content, for example, and things could just break if you don't happen to have the right criteria and people sometimes cannot help you because their experiences may not be the same as you.

Fair concern in so much that if it happened it would be unfortunate (game story takes a back seat), but of course as said I don't think they would.. but who knows maybe Yoshida steps down and the next person is like "pfft, story.." *delete*. I make the suggestion purely under the constrains that the story wouldn't be done like that.

As for the last bit I still think you're stretching prime example, there are a few bugs in which they could fix (if Blizzard cared to, they still have bugs in some of their starting areas. . . . . . . . . .). To me that doesn't say anything other than maybe Blizzard should have tried harder. You've got bugs, an issue but not unsolvable and something SE has already done some work with (MSQ+ and the potions), and then that Blizzard just doesn't handle story well since.. ever. . Neither are prime examples on why an alternate start would be an issue, imo (the concern of story becoming unimportant is there, but that's not a prime example of wow in relationship to the alternate starts- since it was a thing before it).

Your prime examples to me are prime examples on why Blizzard is an issue lol, they could fix their bugs or they could have made story more important - they just didn't.