Yoshi P confirmed they CUT ultimate content from 6.0 not DELAY

[Kaurhz]

This is probably my biggest issue, significantly bigger than the lack of challenging content.
It's not just that jobs are getting easier but that for some the skill floor is incredibly low and the ceiling isn't much higher, making a lot of jobs just feel uninteresting to play.

Even casual easy content can have more longevity if the thing you're experiencing it through, in this case the job you're playing, is enjoyable to play. On the flip side, if the jobs are sleep inducingly boring to play then the content needs to make up for that, unfortunately to me it currently does not.



I have to disagree.

First of all, why do we so readily accept that this is all dungeons are supposed to be? Just some boring corridors that you do maybe once a day for 15-20 minutes to get 90 tomestones and then forget about them.
If tomestones are all you want then it would be much more efficient to join hunt trains, they cost you the same amount of time, with just as little effort and give you more tomestones for that invested time. Sure, hunt trains aren't always available but with world transfer being a thing you have several of them going at different times of the day and you need to do less of them per week to cap your tomestones.
I also definitely disagree with ShB dungeons being above SB dungeons in terms of quality, you can argue about which one's visuals appeal more to you but they follow the exact same design pattern, there's just less of them.

But if we have to stick with dungeons being a boring joke of content only meant for grinding tomestones then having fewer of them just makes the problem worse, being boring on top of having no variety.

Let me clarify the point I'm trying to make with dungeons; there's no real compelling reason to have multiple dungeons per patch if the substance of quality isn't being maintained consistently between the two of them. Or the storytelling component, really. Though this is probably skewed with me since I never really found Stormblood interesting in any real gravity. But I feel each of the Shadowbringers' dungeons tells quite the story. Hunt trains are clearly more efficient but then your schedule aligns with that of the train. Comparatively, you can log in, do an expert get 50 tomes, and be logged out all within the span of 20 minutes. As for readily accepting what they are supposed to be; is probably because that is how they appeal. There's no compelling mechanics, no real compelling story behind the vast majority of them, at least unless you're very heavily engrossed in the lore.

If I'm being honest I'd much rather they cut dungeons down from 2 > 1 and found a way to make them even more interesting, or to add more challenging and dynamic components to them, be it optional routes or introducing dungeoneering-esque mechanics to them than just give more, otherwise, we could argue that ARR was by far the best which I'm not inclined to agree with.

[Kaurhz]

They'll tell us to enjoy all the great new PVP and mahjong content they choose to add by cutting Ultimates.

Man I do love me some mahjong and small scale PvP huh!? Who else gets excited every morning thinking about queueing for PvP in this game? It's great isnt it?! The netcode is just PERFECT for PvP in this game! Oh man, I am so glad they decided to add more PvP, Farmville, and mahjong content in this game instead of Ultimate!

I'm sure some Mahjong professionals would advertise this game or something so it's fine if we don't get the TOXIC raiders to join!~!@!!!!~`1`one

Thank you square for cutting ultimate in exchange for more garbage content that no one asked for!!!!

You really are trolling at this point, which all things considered, and how gravitating this issue has been for some, you certainly represent more of a toxic behavior/trait than anyone else in this community would be capable of conjuring. Your last thread will get ignored because it was counterproductive trolling with some of your posts even being deleted and I would wager that this will follow the same. It's a shame really because you're triviliazing and undermining the displeasure of others; all for a comedic skit on the Official Forums in an attempt to provoke people

[Lanadra]

I want to preface my post with the following:

1. I play every game I buy on the highest difficulty. I have the most fun when I'm being challenged.
2. In my long history of playing MMOs, I've always raided at the highest levels.

I want those two points clearly understood before I write the rest of my post. Just so there can be no juvenile rebuttals of "lol casual."

High difficulty content is played by such a small amount of the player base, that developers are starting to re-think the time investment and cost of such content. Even World of WarCraft isn't immune from this. If you go back to the Cataclysm expansion, Looking for Raid (LFR) — which is queueable, beyond easy mode meant for mass audience appeal — came into the game because it was that or raiding was going to go away. Not my words, either, but the developers themselves. Blizzard could only justify the time and resources for raid development if raid participation increased dramatically. The same thing applies here for Ultimates. The Ultimate fights are fantastic pieces of content for players like me who love a challenge. The problem is, such a small number of players experience it, and I think the "cut Ultimates" and the non-commital to them in the future, is looking at this content and them saying, "We probably see those development resources better applied in different content."

So to be clear: as a player who loves hard content, and who loves challenging raiding, we're likely going to see Ultimates weened off because they aren't experienced by enough of the player base.

Seems that you are one among few 'high end raiders' who gets why things like Ultimate are such an easy decision to either can or delay.. exactly because the time developing it is already hard to justify as it is.

Funny enough I'm.. well, not necessarily the opposite as I certainly don't play all games on easy, but I am someone who will never touch Savage and certainly not Ultimate.. and while I can see why it would appeal to some, like Starflake and indeed you as well, from my point of view it really is development resources wasted on extreme minority content that probably only about 1% of everyone will get to experience and even less than that get to complete it.

I think it's also why a lot of people tend to be quick to feel disdain when they see 'high end raiders' like the OP in particular have a go at content that the vast majority of this game's player base primarily plays.

[MPK]

Seems that you are one among few 'high end raiders' who gets why things like Ultimate are such an easy decision to either can or delay.. exactly because the time developing it is already hard to justify as it is.

Funny enough I'm.. well, not necessarily the opposite as I certainly don't play all games on easy, but I am someone who will never touch Savage and certainly not Ultimate.. and while I can see why it would appeal to some, like Starflake and indeed you as well, from my point of view it really is development resources wasted on extreme minority content that probably only about 1% of everyone will get to experience and even less than that get to complete it.

I think it's also why a lot of people tend to be quick to feel disdain when they see 'high end raiders' like the OP in particular have a go at content that the vast majority of this game's player base primarily plays.

So the majority of players enjoy PvP, Mahjong, and Farmville right??!

Man lets look at that Eureka relic completion rate too!!! Wow!!

Man I cant state how grateful I am for SE for spending my sub money on content like that! Thank you square for cutting my one piece of content I care for a year for stuff that even less people enjoy!

[Lanadra]

So the majority of players enjoy PvP, Mahjong, and Farmville right??!

Man lets look at that Eureka relic completion rate too!!! Wow!!

Man I cant state how grateful I am for SE for spending my sub money on content like that! Thank you square for cutting my one piece of content I care for a year for stuff that even less people enjoy!

[Vahlnir]

lol

That gif is amazing. Thanks for the laugh.

[ForteNightshade]

Seems that you are one among few 'high end raiders' who gets why things like Ultimate are such an easy decision to either can or delay.. exactly because the time developing it is already hard to justify as it is.

Funny enough I'm.. well, not necessarily the opposite as I certainly don't play all games on easy, but I am someone who will never touch Savage and certainly not Ultimate.. and while I can see why it would appeal to some, like Starflake and indeed you as well, from my point of view it really is development resources wasted on extreme minority content that probably only about 1% of everyone will get to experience and even less than that get to complete it.

I think it's also why a lot of people tend to be quick to feel disdain when they see 'high end raiders' like the OP in particular have a go at content that the vast majority of this game's player base primarily plays.

I disagree on the resource argument, if only because the devs have outright said 90-95% of Ultimate is reused assets; TEA being the exception. Rather, I suspect it's a lack of manpower and desire. As I said in an earlier post. They give off the impression of simply disliking Ultimate. Even with infinite resources, developer time and the like, it still requires a persona that enjoys designing content that will intentionally frustrate and infuriate players. Take a company like FromSoftware. Their actual advertising slogan for Bloodborne was "You'll die, then you'll learn" or something to that effect. Likewise, they flat out refused to make an easy mode difficulty option for Sekiro despite a large demand for one given how immensely hard that game supposedly is. They clearly enjoy watching players attempt their games, struggle for however long it takes before succeeding. And they're satisficed with losing players who give up. Conversely, FFXIV's team seems far more content developing smaller scale things, or simply lifestyle activities.

None of this I say in a negative light. Both are perfectly fine design philosophies, considering they both work.

My only real complaint with FFXIV's approach is more along what Absurdity brought up. You don't necessarily need extremely difficult content to enjoy it. In fact, I prefer a mixture of everything since I don't always want to log in and throw myself at UCoB or TEA. I do, however, feeling far too much has been dumbed down—specifically job wise. It isn't exactly engaging to play healer when all we do is spam Glare, or that Dark Knight is practically a clone of Warrior. Bard had its whole identity siphoned onto Dancer and so forth. There's a balance I feel they could strike, and they just haven't.

[Themarvin]

I disagree on the resource argument, if only because the devs have outright said 90-95% of Ultimate is reused assets; TEA being the exception. Rather, I suspect it's a lack of manpower and desire. As I said in an earlier post. They give off the impression of simply disliking Ultimate. Even with infinite resources, developer time and the like, it still requires a persona that enjoys designing content that will intentionally frustrate and infuriate players. Take a company like FromSoftware. Their actual advertising slogan for Bloodborne was "You'll die, then you'll learn" or something to that effect. Likewise, they flat out refused to make an easy mode difficulty option for Sekiro despite a large demand for one given how immensely hard that game supposedly is. They clearly enjoy watching players attempt their games, struggle for however long it takes before succeeding. And they're satisficed with losing players who give up. Conversely, FFXIV's team seems far more content developing smaller scale things, or simply lifestyle activities.

None of this I say in a negative light. Both are perfectly fine design philosophies, considering they both work.

My only real complaint with FFXIV's approach is more along what Absurdity brought up. You don't necessarily need extremely difficult content to enjoy it. In fact, I prefer a mixture of everything since I don't always want to log in and throw myself at UCoB or TEA. I do, however, feeling far too much has been dumbed down—specifically job wise. It isn't exactly engaging to play healer when all we do is spam Glare, or that Dark Knight is practically a clone of Warrior. Bard had its whole identity siphoned onto Dancer and so forth. There's a balance I feel they could strike, and they just haven't.

People pay to get these clears with RMT, it is a big down factor for creating such content as well.

[ForteNightshade]

People pay to get these clears with RMT, it is a big down factor for creating such content as well.

People pay for literally anything. I doubt the dev team cares all that much, especially as those willing to shell out the money are decidedly low. If they did care, you'd think they'd be a lot more active banning the multitude of PFs blatantly advertising RMT.

[Avatre]

People pay for literally anything. I doubt the dev team cares all that much, especially as those willing to shell out the money are decidedly low. If they did care, you'd think they'd be a lot more active banning the multitude of PFs blatantly advertising RMT.

While it is easily insinuated that it is RMT, there is literally no in-game proof that is it as those people don't even talk about it in game. Everything is done outside of the game. It would literally be banning on a "hunch" that something isn't right.