6.0 Relics and Beyond

[ForteNightshade]

I'll be blunt and say this is the worst iteration of the relic so far.

Not because Bozja is necessarily bad. In fact, I rather enjoy it, flawed though it may be. Likewise, Castrum and Delubrum are the most fun I've had in a large scale raid since BA, which I also loved. Admittedly, requiring 48 players for Savage is a bit much and puts an unfortunate shelf level on the content, however that's another topic entirely. So... what's the issue?

The whole purpose behind offering an alterative method for relic progression was to address complaints from players who simply dislike large instanced zones and the assorted mechanics that accompany them. No matter how well designed, they just aren't interested in that type of content. Hence why people were asking for alternative method similar to ARR/HW. Instead, the devs tried to appeal to everyone... except not appealing to them? It's baffling to me they landed on the current system wherein players are both forced into Bozja but also forced out of it. Who does this benefit? Those of us who enjoy Bozja are forced to grind old 24 mans, FATES and PotD unless we want to fight RNG while people who hate Bozja are forced to grind up to level 10 and partake in two large scale raids they otherwise have no interest in. One aspect I liked about the HW memory farm is it kept people who didn't care to grind Bozka out of it, thus they weren't just AFKing—something that became a massive problem with Eureka. They had their progression and we had ours. And yet... you were again incentivized to FATE farm because it was far more efficient.

It honestly feels like they were worried not enough people would queue for Ivalice or PotD. So they made them mandatory/faster, and in doing so... punished people who actually liked the new content. Once again, it's mystifying how they signed off on some of these design decisions.

I'd actually respect the decision more if they simply acknowledged Eureka-like content is their preferred method and how they intend to develop all future relic progression—even if I'd ultimately disagree with that decision. At least they're showing committed instead of flip flopping and effectively frustrating everyone.

[Addy]

I'll be blunt and say this is the worst iteration of the relic so far.

Not because Bozja is necessarily bad. In fact, I rather enjoy it, flawed though it may be. Likewise, Castrum and Delubrum are the most fun I've had in a large scale raid since BA, which I also loved. Admittedly, requiring 48 players for Savage is a bit much and puts an unfortunate shelf level on the content, however that's another topic entirely. So... what's the issue?

The whole purpose behind offering an alterative method for relic progression was to address complaints from players who simply dislike large instanced zones and the assorted mechanics that accompany them. No matter how well designed, they just aren't interested in that type of content. Hence why people were asking for alternative method similar to ARR/HW. Instead, the devs tried to appeal to everyone... except not appealing to them? It's baffling to me they landed on the current system wherein players are both forced into Bozja but also forced out of it. Who does this benefit? Those of us who enjoy Bozja are forced to grind old 24 mans, FATES and PotD unless we want to fight RNG while people who hate Bozja are forced to grind up to level 10 and partake in two large scale raids they otherwise have no interest in. One aspect I liked about the HW memory farm is it kept people who didn't care to grind Bozka out of it, thus they weren't just AFKing—something that became a massive problem with Eureka. They had their progression and we had ours. And yet... you were again incentivized to FATE farm because it was far more efficient.

It honestly feels like they were worried not enough people would queue for Ivalice or PotD. So they made them mandatory/faster, and in doing so... punished people who actually liked the new content. Once again, it's mystifying how they signed off on some of these design decisions.

I'd actually respect the decision more if they simply acknowledged Eureka-like content is their preferred method and how they intend to develop all future relic progression—even if I'd ultimately disagree with that decision. At least they're showing committed instead of flip flopping and effectively frustrating everyone.

What annoys me more is the flip flop on what is the better way to grind it out the first patch it was better to farm the HW fates and do the dungeon 6 times because the drop rate of Skirmishes and CE's wasn't great. Now in the first part (till the most recent hotfix) you are all but required to do Crystal Tower because the drop rate off of CE's was insanely low. Like why not make it equal both ways? So people who enjoy bozja do bozja and those that prefer the grinding old content method grind that out.

[RyuDragnier]

I'll be blunt and say this is the worst iteration of the relic so far.

ARR relic says "hi". You needed crafters, killing 100s of open world enemies, running dozens of dungeons (several of which were current content), farming the hell out of trials/EX/Savage for the light step, needing a ton of tomestones, doing around 75 treasure maps, FATE grinding, etc. Nowadays it's a bit of a grind, but doable. Back then it was heavily time gated and took MONTHS.

Note that I do agree the current step is a bit of a tedious one, but it still pales in comparison to the original ARR relics.

[TaleraRistain]

ARR relic says "hi". You needed crafters, killing 100s of open world enemies, running dozens of dungeons (several of which were current content), farming the hell out of trials/EX/Savage for the light step, needing a ton of tomestones, doing around 75 treasure maps, FATE grinding, etc. Nowadays it's a bit of a grind, but doable. Back then it was heavily time gated and took MONTHS.

Note that I do agree the current step is a bit of a tedious one, but it still pales in comparison to the original ARR relics.

The issue isn't the grind. The issue is that except for a step here and there in ARR and HW, you could accomplish those doing your normal things. You weren't sequestered away into a separate zone where you may or may not enjoy the content but be unable to accomplish any of the other normal things you might want to. Bozja doubles down on this by also being a zone with an even more limited shelf life than Eureka had.

And to the OP, "technically" they gave people what they asked for. They just either truly or deliberately misunderstood. It's a bit facetious to say "You wanted to go outside, here, we let you get the updates outside" because that completely misses the point that so many of the complaints were about having to interact with the sequestered zone at all when it offered very little to entice them there.

[ForteNightshade]

ARR relic says "hi". You needed crafters, killing 100s of open world enemies, running dozens of dungeons (several of which were current content), farming the hell out of trials/EX/Savage for the light step, needing a ton of tomestones, doing around 75 treasure maps, FATE grinding, etc. Nowadays it's a bit of a grind, but doable. Back then it was heavily time gated and took MONTHS.

Note that I do agree the current step is a bit of a tedious one, but it still pales in comparison to the original ARR relics.

As others have said, it isn't the grind that makes this worse but the execution. ARR and HW had bad steps due to overestimating how ridiculous of a slog that would be. Not to mention, you could cut the dev team some slack with ARR has they were still taping together a rushed MMO and had minimal experience under their belt.

With Shadowbringers, they deliberately set out to make an alternate path except it not only didn't address the complaints people had, it forced players who enjoyed the new content out of it to do something they likely hated. Put another way, they took player feedback and missed the mark so badly they just pissed everyone off instead of those who disliked Eureka. That's why I called it the worst iteration.