Famitsu Interview: Tuning encounters for healing

[Crushnight]

I feel that it will depend mostly on player skill. Recently I’ve received feedback saying “There’s nothing much to do for healing” from the healers so we’ve increased the attack intensity on Eden Promise Savage, and made sure the damage received is tuned as tight as it can be.

So they still ignoring the elephant in the room with their design philosophy, joy >_>.

All that says is for savage the last fight in the tier is as fine tuned as they believe for what they want.

Completely ignoring rest of content, completely ignoring that downtime will always be a thing and they have no plan to improve it at least to an extent to talk about it(which is the biggest complaint is that our downtime is incredibly boring), there only solution is to make the last savage hit slightly harder.

E12s p2 is nothing compared to phase 1 and phase 1 still has large amounts of nothing for healers to freely spam dps. The hardest part is Shiva icicles into Titan bombs after your past that, your healing isn't pushed until Lions and once lions are done, meh.

People don't want dps rotations but they don't want 1 button monotony when they start playing well on healers and nothing that has come out of Yoshi P's mouth about healers has indicated they are actually working on the downtime problems people have about healers.

More healing will equal less downtime but if the downtime is the same as now it will still be boring and monotonous. Make healers fun with stuff to do in their downtime so the reward for playing well is fun gameplay.

But it is just a brick wall at this point >_>

[Recon1o6]

glad to see everyone seems to agree that for once yoshida has received our feedback, but disappointed that he, once again, has ignored the fact we have nothing to do outside of 2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1

what was the glimmer of hope i mentioned in the previous statement? that sage at least might have more than 2 buttons to do damage with given it was offence or defence. that's how low my expectations are
either sage will get more than dot/nuke, or they might accidentally give the other healers something back. hoping for anymore means hoping for a dedicated healer designer


for folks asking what the current team is. There was 1 trainee, 1 lead and 2 others, 1 of which who has been with other departments during shb development.
We know that one mains dragoon (at least in sb) and another paladin. Yoshida acts as their in house blm tester.
Naturally 1 of them will have been working on the new jobs, which doesn't give any hope. Other mmos have shown that you really need more people in job design to get a range of views when you have this many jobs.

[Saefinn]

How about instead, the players simply...not use the better gear? Most player complaints can be taken care of by the players themselves it often seems. Stop trying to optimize everything and watch it get harder.

I feel like instead gear progression should be done differently, maybe even lower the iLevel sync too. I mean, I get what you are saying, when my FC did an min iLevel run of Cape Westwind, I had more to do as a healer...on normal difficulty content. It was a weird throwback to when healers were better balanced with content. And in fairness, when I was levelling SCH 70 to 80, in dungeons where we were under geared healing felt more engaging. So I think there is something within the tuning of gear, but it doesn't seem like self-gimping is the answer. Because it's counter intuitive to avoid getting better and it's not like groups are gonna be pleased if you're self-gimping when you could be contributing more.

So thinking on it, maybe an alternative progression could be:

- set a lower iLevel sync on content, put a limit somewhere close to the minimum iLevel
- your mentality for gear progression is to be better geared for the next content you're moving onto and not the one you're currently doing.

EG (numbers are arbitrary and for demonstration, not based on anything).
Instance 1: Min iLevel 450, iLevel sync 460. Gear drop 470
Instance 2: Min iLevel 460, iLevel sync 470, Gear drop 480
Instance 3: Min iLevel 470, iLevel sync 480, Gear drop 490

It'd mean a tighter window for balance without losing the incentive for better gear and that it'd remain based on player skill than being able to face roll it.

Maybe for EX and raid content raise the iLevel sync when it's no longer on content, as I get that some semi-casual groups will do the fights when everybody else has moved on and take advantage of the iLevel increase.

[Rilifane]

The healing requirement is a step up from last tier but not by much. It's nice that e11s already has some mechanics that hit harder or have more frequent damage like Cycles or Burnished + Light Elemental Break right after but one hardcast for each Burnished and rest with oGCDs/ lilies ended up being enough, so there's definitely room for a lot more. Nonetheless, I like Cycles best so far because they have a nice mix of constant, raidwide and single-target damage with enough time between hits to not make it into a mindless GCD heal spam fest but keep you constantly engaged.
And I agree that e12s seems to be a mitigation check mostly, at least from the part I've seen of this fight. Once we shifted around our mitigation, knockback with icicles right after stopped being a problem.

The focus seems to be mitigation checks and one-shots rather than more frequent or even constant damage that shifts the responsibility for surviving to healers rather than tanks/ dps. Right now you're just dead if people forget their mitigation, nothing a healer can prevent. They increased the damage, which is good, but it still feels lacking with the focus on one-shots.
I'd prefer an encounter design where mechanics don't hit as hard, your heals don't heal as much and damage is more frequent instead of extremely high but rare damage spikes that need to be mitigated to death and are healed with an oGCD or two.

[Gemina]

glad to see everyone seems to agree that for once yoshida has received our feedback, but disappointed that he, once again, has ignored the fact we have nothing to do outside of 2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1.

Those who agree and use this argument need to understand that just because it has not been addressed, does not mean it has been ignored. The issue(s) with healing contain actual paradoxes and contradictions. Kind of like Yoshi's comments about the incoming housing wards wherein it was translated that the same amount of wards would be released in Ishgard, but also said there would be enough housing for everyone. This does not compute. Healing is similar because content is set up in a way for healing, and by extension healers become less relevant the stronger they and everyone else get. This also does not compute.

In order to keep them relevant throughout the duration of a patch, they need to bring damage, utility to increase it, or both. This is where the issue of '1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1' comes in. Sure, the devs can give healers some 3's and 4's to push as well, but this does not change the fact that a good portion of their kits will become redundant. Then you have the matter of if they do add 3's, and 4's, healers will try to still push those buttons when they wouldn't be pressing '1,1,1,1,1' in that given scenario because GCD allocation shifts to their utility to get through the phases such as regens, afflatus, benefect, and adlo. I for one can say that as an AST, when healing requirements hit the roof, I have to drop the cards, or at least optimizing them. I do not have the ability to multi-task this. When I try, players die. Our 3's and 4's come by way of skills like Rezz, and Rescue, as we are still needed to erase mistakes.

I hate to be the anchor keeping the green-DPS ship from sailing, but it's players like me that Yoshi and the rest of the design team are thinking about when it comes to how these kits are designed and implemented. Increasing healing requirements, adding/deleting DPS skills, homogenization, leaving things as they currently are... Some might see these as attempts to fix the issue, but this is not true. These are things that have been attempted to get healers to adapt to the system that has never changed for as long as I've been here at the very least. They are not trying to fix the system, they are trying to fix the healer mindset, and it's not working.

[Absurdity]

- set a lower iLevel sync on content, put a limit somewhere close to the minimum iLevel
- your mentality for gear progression is to be better geared for the next content you're moving onto and not the one you're currently doing.

EG (numbers are arbitrary and for demonstration, not based on anything).
Instance 1: Min iLevel 450, iLevel sync 460. Gear drop 470
Instance 2: Min iLevel 460, iLevel sync 470, Gear drop 480
Instance 3: Min iLevel 470, iLevel sync 480, Gear drop 490

It'd mean a tighter window for balance without losing the incentive for better gear and that it'd remain based on player skill than being able to face roll it.

Maybe for EX and raid content raise the iLevel sync when it's no longer on content, as I get that some semi-casual groups will do the fights when everybody else has moved on and take advantage of the iLevel increase.

This would create so many other problems that then need addressing.

If we take your ilvls as an example then what is the point of getting 490 gear? Your gear from the previous raid tier is already BiS, your 490 gear gets synced down and is probably worse than your 480 gear so what is the point of even getting it? An expansion only has 3 raid tiers so you're not even gearing for the next one. (granted this is also an issue with the current system but with the new system your raid gear is also useless for the raid you're currently doing.)

You are BiS geared for every raid tier after the 1st one without even setting a foot into it, making the content already easier on day 1 because 10 ilvls above minimum ilvl is quite a bit.

What are we gonna do with crafted gear? Keep it the same ilvl as the previous BiS? Then what's the point of getting that BiS gear in the first place? It gets synced down for the current raid and it's at best on-par with crafted for the next one.

What do we do with ultimates? Let's say you get an ultimate after the 1st raid tier, is it gonna be ilvl 470 or ilvl 460? And what if you don't get an ultimate? That's already a problem with the current system where there is really no point in acquiring savage gear outside of log runs.

Then there is the minor issue of having to carry around 2 different sets, one for the current raid and one for the next, with our already very limited inventory space. This is just off the top of my head, I could probably find some more problems.


If we're talking about individual fights within a raid tier then we get some other issues, like having to carry 4 different sets of gear with you for each instance. A lot of the other points however still stand.

[Sovasin]

E9S: I think this is fun to heal for a first floor compared to E5S and E1S. The time between raidwides is not as long as Ramuh which forces you to put more effort into topping up the party; for example, having to heal after Obscure Woods before the knockback and before the Phaser mechanics. The tiles phase is interesting because of the movement restrictions that make it hard to use aoe heals like Earthly Star effectively unless you're in a static and specifically time your star to go off when everyone is in the inner tiles. The damage up buff is a great idea. Statics with skilled healers can choose to let the clouds in; the damage up is significant but not enough to prevent a zero-GCD heal plan. Groups that can't deal with 4 stacks can let in 1-2 instead. It's a cool way to let good healers contribute indirectly to higher DPS on the boss. Of course this wasn't possible during the first few weeks but now that most players in BiS it is doable.

E10S: This fight is boring because like Ramuh the damage is spaced very far apart. Earthly star and random regens can take care of the vast majority of damage in this fight, there is very little reason to plan heals for this. The triple stack damage was interesting especially when undergeared. At BiS, Shadow Warrior became another way for skilled healers to contribute indirectly as overmitigating it allows the group to handle the orbs standing in the middle without having to run to the edge. I think future raids should definitely include mechanics like this and E9S clouds, but I suspect this was not intended by SE.

[Sovasin]

snip

E11S: Fun to heal. Lots of outgoing damage with some opportunities to delay Earthly Star. Damage is frequent and Elemental Break forces a quick top-up between the protean and the stack/spread damage that could be dealt with using delayed heals like Horoscope, a quick rapture/indom or by mitigating beforehand. At BiS just being topped up before the mechanic is usually enough though. Burnished Glory being a mini-Almagest is nice and was challenging to heal when undergeared. Some annoying RNG like the thunder tether applying a heavy DoT (good if a melee is targeted because of bloodbath and second wind, bad if caster) to a single target which made healing feel inconsistent. Lightning Elemental Break is also harder to heal than Fire and Light; getting Lightning first during Cycles can sometimes end a run.

E12S P1: Very well designed. Frequent Maleficiums make it difficult to rely solely on regens between each phase, forcing quick top-ups through Indomitability, Earthly Star etc. Damage happens back to back with primal release mechanics, double tankbusters etc keeping healers constantly on their toes and forcing GCD heals when undergeared. Incoming damage is very high during Diamond Dust and Titan, however the knockback during Diamond Dust is much easier to deal with with an AST due to Horoscope not having a range limit; Celestial Opposition is also very strong here for a few ticks of regen before and after the knockback or after the initial cast. WHM/SCH teams suffered when undergeared as each healer could only heal their side of the arena after the knockback and mitigation was limited to just Galvanise and Seraph + Temperance. Neutral Sect + Lightspeed allowed teams to overmitigate the knockback itself, especially with a SCH. Even with gear incoming damage is high and party mitigation must be coordinated. It is near impossible to 0 GCD heal this, as far as I know most groups are still using neutral sect during diamond dust.

Titan phase does heavy damage that can be partially avoided by groups that know not to stand under the bombs when they drop, and the Maleficium afterwards forces a quick top-up. The damage comes in a steady stream compared to DD which was a lot more burstier so personal heals such as Bloodbath and Second Wind can be coordinated to ease the burden on healers.

The stacks during Giants deal heavy damage and so do the beams + the knockback after, forcing top-ups while the healers are handling their own beam mechanics.

[Sovasin]

snip

The last heal check is probably the knockback during Lion rampant which dealt significant damage when undergeared followed by damage from the next two sets of lion breaths. It wasn't easy to heal after the knockback due to everyone being spread out for the primal release mechanics so overmitigating before the knockback was a safe way to handle it. Current strats give the healers tiny safespots to stand in after the knockback if they are baiting the big lions which can be tricky to reach in time after casting neutral sect/galvanise shields in the middle.

The double tankbusters make AST/SCH/DRK more viable as Essential Dignity can be used for each hit while Walking Dead is active. Two 1HP Essential Dignities + Fey Union or Lustrate is usually sufficient which is nice compared to fights with single tankbusters that often demand benefic 2.

It's hard to do this fight with a low piety set as GCD heals are very difficult to cut out without perfect party mitigation. Curing Waltz and Mantra are very strong here.

E12S P2: This fight doesn't demand much of healers until the enrage. There is a bit of burst healing required after each Relativity Mechanic. It would be nice if Intermediate Relativity happened a bit later to let Neutral Sect come off cooldown after using it in Basic Relativity. Horoscope is very powerful here as it can be buffed before the mechanics occur and it naturally triggers before the post-Relativity damage. It shines especially in Advanced Relativity where the period between the boss going untargetable and the double water stacks is just over thirty seconds. The enrage is one of the best soft enrages we've had since Alphascape and required mitigation to be planned by the entire party when undergeared. It still hits hard even at BiS and healers with low piety sets risk running out of MP, especially if people die during Triple Apocalypse.

Overall I think this tier was pretty fun to heal with the exception of E10S. I would like them to continue with this level of incoming damage. E12S especially was tuned quite high for players with crafted gear, but it was still doable. I think that AST had a noticeable advantage this tier; Horoscope's unlimited range gave them an edge over the other healers in mechanics like Lightning Elemental Break, Diamond Dust and phase 2 Relativities where it was common for both healers to be split up and for the party to be very spread out. Without an AST, Galvanise and Fairy lag can often lead to wipes, although Cure 3 + thin air works very well for phase 2's enrage.

[Sovasin]

I don't think it's true that healers are just doing 2 1 1 1 1 1. E12S P1 shows that SE is capable of designing a fight that demands lots of oGCDs and some GCD heals. I think E11S was pretty good too. A lot of the people complaining in this thread about healers just pressing one button have not even healed this tier so I have no idea where they get their opinions from. However I think that the CPM between both healers is skewed towards AST as their oGCDs are free and therefore first in priority. Another issue is that the increase in defense and vitality from ilvl is very strong and makes healing a lot easier. People entering E12S P1 today with high piety sets would not find healing it to be a major challenge outside of maybe the Diamond Dust knockback compared to people who entered at minimum ilvl and it isn't fair to describe healing as spamming one button when a lot more is required of you when undergeared. The issue then is not healing but gear advantage making healing redundant.

Alternatively move actions like Addle back to healers so we have more responsibility when it comes to mitigation. It's frustrating how healing is so reliant on party mitigation when that responsibility could be shifted to healers to make the role more engaging.