Zenos: The Big Bad (The Feedback Thread, Part 1)

[Alleo]

I hate that you can't edit posts on mobile.

But also to add. Can't an antagonist just be simply 'mentally unhinged'?

They can be and depending in which way they are unhinged it can even be fun since such characters are often quite unpredictable. My problem with him though: He already got one expansion where he was like that and we beat him. Having another such expansion where the only difference will probably be his weapon and maybe his power level depending on if he gets Zodiark or not is imo boring. We already know this character. We know that he is obsessed with us. If this was his first introducing to the story and maybe before that we only heard some tibids here and there then I might have found him interesting but he already got his stage...

Also another problem: 6.0 will be the end of a story that is years long. I just dont want someone like him to be the last boss.

I still find it funny that people have this hate boner for Zenos, because, "He's just bored and boring and doing nothing all of the time!" Like... The Ascians before him. Elidibus before him. Every meanwhile scene before him. Like, sure, occasionally they did some stuff like talked to new antagonist NPCs for the patch. Or ominously talked with Urianger in Gubal library. Or laughed maniacally at frozen Great Wyrm eyes. The substance was always the same though, "Haha, evil Ascian master plan. Mwahaha, evil laugh. Something something Hydaelyn's champion's days are numbers something something chaos."

Not saying Zenos is a step up, but I mean, where was all this hate for the Ascians?

Though this also has me thinking, isn't it quite delightful? The old king of meanwhile scenes, Elidibus, literally took the body of Zenos and was used in meanwhile scenes inside of it, and after he left it, and Zenos took it up again... meanwhile scenes!

Hate boner is a very strong word. Arent people allowed to not like a character now? He is bored this is his whole arc. He is bascially bored of life and the only good thing now is to fight us. He has no greater goal, nothing at all. The Ascians before they were fleshed out were also critizied for being too one dimensional but at least they still had the air of mystery: Why are they doing it? Elidibus also had a bit going on with his talk about us joining their side if we knew the truth.

I agree that they sadly had not done much with Ascians for quite some time but then you have Emet-Selch. He too was an Ascian and he was so much fun. Every scene with him was a delight. And at the end even though I knew it was for the best and that he needed to be stopped it was still sad because you could understand him in some ways and you also knew that a great character would be gone from the story. That for me is the sign of a great villian.

Elidibus was fleshed out a tiny bit more before we ended him imo way too soon...imagine if they had given us a whole expansion with him. Maybe even temporarly team up with him to take down Fandaniel. No matter how evil the Ascians were, for me even someone like Lahabrea was way more interesting than Zenos.

[Vyrerus]

Air of mystery.

Let's talk about the air of mystery, because that's one thing people seem to be taking for granted. We all assume that we have Zenos pegged, down, and ready to be butchered. I don't think so. When he lost to us while he was controlling Shinryu, controlling a god, he smiled. Then he killed himself. He wanted to leave the stage. He even has lines about, "There upon the stage I stood, prepared to take my final bow, only to find out the finale was but an intermission..."

He's got the air of mystery. Why was someone who was satisfied so completely, willing to come back to life in another body, and then seek out their old body? Why not drift off to oblivion? In this cavalcade of science experiments and body augmentations, what did Emet-selch do, that makes Zenos see the Final Days of Amaurot? Why does love and the other pleasures of the flesh seem lowly and hold no interest for him? When did he transcend man and become inhuman?

And it's not that people aren't allowed to dislike people, but it's the commonly held opinion, view, and feeling. People willingly post their dislike of Zenos all of the time, mostly to accolades, as if people need to justify disliking him. It becomes a little Zenos hate party, and that's fine. I just think it's shortsighted.

Also, I'd hate to have had a whole expansion of Elidibus. He was literally a plot device, the way people describe Zenos, but without anything beyond just being a white robed Ascian for a long time. I actually didn't really care for 5.3. To me, that was a patch that was more about giving Catboi Sage Deluxe a means to show off and play center stage. As he ever was, Elidibus's role could have been filled by any Ascian, and it would have been just as compelling.

[Alleo]

Let's talk about the air of mystery, because that's one thing people seem to be taking for granted. We all assume that we have Zenos pegged, down, and ready to be butchered. I don't think so. When he lost to us while he was controlling Shinryu, controlling a god, he smiled. Then he killed himself. He wanted to leave the stage. He even has lines about, "There upon the stage I stood, prepared to take my final bow, only to find out the finale was but an intermission..."

He's got the air of mystery. Why was someone who was satisfied so completely, willing to come back to life in another body, and then seek out their old body? Why not drift off to oblivion? In this cavalcade of science experiments and body augmentations, what did Emet-selch do, that makes Zenos see the Final Days of Amaurot? Why does love and the other pleasures of the flesh seem lowly and hold no interest for him? When did he transcend man and become inhuman?

And it's not that people aren't allowed to dislike people, but it's the commonly held opinion, view, and feeling. People willingly post their dislike of Zenos all of the time, mostly to accolades, as if people need to justify disliking him. It becomes a little Zenos hate party, and that's fine. I just think it's shortsighted.

Well we know that he has a version of the echo so him coming back is imo not suprising or that mysterious. Zenos simply did not know about the part of being brought back and who knows maybe he would have just moved on but then we got Elidibus in Zenos body and maybe he did not like it. I honestly doubt that there is much deeper meaning to that.

About love and other pleasure: I mean there are probably enough people in our own world that are simply not interested in such things. Zenos just takes his pleasure from fights.

I get that there are some mysteries but for me none of them are truly interesting, at least not enough to have someone like him back.

About other peoples opinion: But just because its a common one still does not make it a hate boner. This is also a thread specifically asking what we think about him. And maybe people are posting why they dont like it because they know that they will just be seen as a hater by some? Isnt it great that they at least try to take their time to say why they hate a fictional character? I remember a certain muscular female from a recent game...and how people that just did not like her were called names because surely you cant just dislike/hate someone (thats not even real) without being a terrible human being yourself.