Should Dark Arts Come Back in 6.0? If so, What Should the Skill Do?

[Satarn]

Old Dark Arts was perfectly fine itself which is why it had no problems in HW(or SB AoE for that matter). In SB the issue was that they've cut the Darkside upkeep cost and nerfed Dark Passenger without adding any new MP spenders, so there was nothing worthwhile to spend MP on in single target besides Dark Arts - hence the spam. If DRK had the same MP rates now as it had before, then Edge/Flood would have the exact same issue because the problem has never been the skill, but what's been happening with the kit around it.

The awfully low MP rates in SHB "solved" this issue by not giving you enough resource to spend outside of burst windows, but the resulting effect is that DRK still spams one MP spender under buffs, with the difference being that they then fall asleep for the next 50 seconds of the rotation and there's next to no need to manage your MP, all of this resulting in a dull gameplay many of us complain about.

The real solution is - and always has been - to give DRK high MP rates from before(to bring back the APM and resource management) but also provide the job with multiple good ways to spend said MP in both single target and AoE. This can be easily done by separating the Darkside upkeep skill from the main, moderate damage spender and adding some higher damage spenders with cooldowns so you have something to save MP for(which also means burst windows themselves won't consist of just spamming the no-cd moderate spender).
As a result you'd have to constantly manage and use MP like in SB, but instead of just dumping it all into one ability(making it feel spammy), you'd have to actually save it for both your CDs and Darkside upkeep, while using only the "leftovers" for moderate damage filler in order to avoid overcapping.

[Marxam]

6.0 is coming this fall and I want to get this discussion going for DRK players new and old.

Should Dark Arts make a comeback in the next expansion?

I never had the chance to play HW or SB DRK. Only Shb. But man, from what I keep hearing, I missed out. On a lot. But regardless on the state of the job in older expansions, I firmly believe that Dark Arts SHOULD make a come back and replace Inner Release... I mean, Delirium as the job's staple skill.

But what should the new Dark Arts skill do though? Players, casual and hardcore, didn't really like spamming the skill over and over again. So perhaps something can be done to appease the masses? Perhaps have it cost blood gauge instead of MP? Maybe allow Dark Arts be used to open new combo routes for the job?

I'd love the skill to make a grand comeback in 6.0, but what can be done so that Dark Arts can appease everyone and prevent the massive "spam" backlash that occurred in Stormblood?

Rose tinted glasses for sure but the job was very distinct from the other two. DA was great in concept but it applied to too many skills with no cohesion and it was very expensive to use but applied great utility when applied properly. I mean buffing Dark Mind with DA gave you a 30% magic def cd every 60 secs where as PLD had to wait 180 secs for Sentinel and WAR had to wait 120 secs for Vengeance to negate the same magic tankbuster. DA also had a great animation but the job had other perks like low blow procs, aoe utility via Dark Passenger and even Blood weapon which ironically acts similar to GNB's cartridge combo, giving the DRK a sks buff making the job feel fast and sometimes too fast to weave DA. This is where I assume most of the complaints came from.

[Juzjuzz]

Dark arts was fine in stormblood just too spammy. Flood/edge and shadow are less spammy but still repetitive imo and if you use tbn you want to break it and avoid loosing 1 flood/edge of shadow.
I think DA needs to be another way to spend mp 1rst, that's the most important thing. Then it can be like sb or hw or just the new and only way to increase dark side's duration.
And for the speed of the job, it feels a little bit too slow but that's because you don't do mutch. When the burst window is finished you just wait, that's my biggest problem with drk and other tanks.
Keeping the tbn revenge mecanic and transform it into something more powerfull than edge/flood of shadow is a good idea too.
I think the blood gauge should change as well (too close to warrior), maybe something that you can spend over time for procs idk xD.

[Recon1o6]

Dark arts in HW was excellent, the problem was dark had too little mp restoration if it got killed by for example living dead. The debuff heavy playstyle and resource management was what a lot of longtime drk players love.

SB as detailed earlier felt more spammy despite its cost increasing to just above 1/3 of the mp bar because there were no other spenders worth using it on. SB drk did gain some excellent actions, noteworthy ones being another victim and TBN which personally to this day is the best unique skill drk ever got. Nevertheless some people liked it because it had a haste effect.

[FoxCh40s]

Dark arts in HW was excellent, the problem was dark had too little mp restoration if it got killed by for example living dead. The debuff heavy playstyle and resource management was what a lot of longtime drk players love.

SB as detailed earlier felt more spammy despite its cost increasing to just above 1/3 of the mp bar because there were no other spenders worth using it on. SB drk did gain some excellent actions, noteworthy ones being another victim and TBN which personally to this day is the best unique skill drk ever got. Nevertheless some people liked it because it had a haste effect.

God HW Dark Knight was so f***ing amazing. Just alll this glorious combo-y think on your feet, pull the whole damn dungeon and laugh in the mobs face as you spammed Dark Abyssal Drain.

It was just so..... *chef's kiss*

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

6.0 is coming this fall and I want to get this discussion going for DRK players new and old.

Should Dark Arts make a comeback in the next expansion?

I never had the chance to play HW or SB DRK. Only Shb. But man, from what I keep hearing, I missed out. On a lot. But regardless on the state of the job in older expansions, I firmly believe that Dark Arts SHOULD make a come back and replace Inner Release... I mean, Delirium as the job's staple skill.

But what should the new Dark Arts skill do though? Players, casual and hardcore, didn't really like spamming the skill over and over again. So perhaps something can be done to appease the masses? Perhaps have it cost blood gauge instead of MP? Maybe allow Dark Arts be used to open new combo routes for the job?

I'd love the skill to make a grand comeback in 6.0, but what can be done so that Dark Arts can appease everyone and prevent the massive "spam" backlash that occurred in Stormblood?

as far as Dark Arts goes, here is my feelings about that subject. not-Dark Arts current "Dark Arts" needs to be thrown in a fire, burned to ashes, deleted, and pretend like it never even did exist. for The Blackest Night to have any connection at all to damage potential and damage output is a lousy and stupid design. The Blackest Knight should be a pure defensive ability, and the "if broken" nonsense should be either a defensive bonus, HP-related bonus, utility bonus, or even some other effect.

while for "Dark Arts", trash and delete the current not-Dark Arts "Dark Arts", and bring back the actual-Dark Arts old Dark Arts, that never should have even been removed.

[Shin96]

The entire job needs an overhaul. They absolutely should get rid off DRK's current iteration.

Wish I knew where to start. Living Shadow for example being redundant because Reaper already looks like it does a better job with its pet thingy. Delirium needs to disappear or come back in the same vein as Heavensward Delirium. Living/Edge of Shadow should be replaced along with Dark Arts, preferably creating a toolkit that actually interacts with itself without feeling a lack of meaning in each skill.

DRK needs a 4th combo of some kind, or even a 5th. I'd prefer for SE to bring back the enmity combo albeit make it actually useful outside of generating aggro, make it just like your typical 1-2-3 spam and add special properties to it. Additionally, bring back Scourge or a new DoT that removes the sensory deprivation of seeing the same combo every 4 seconds. GNB does it, DRK can do it too. Aside from that, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to give a regen effect to Salted Earth as well as adding back Haste to Bloodweapon.

I'm not an employee at SE, so I can only give feedback on how I received playing this once beloved job in ShB. I feel like during this expansion this was one of the worst if not THE most depressing time I spend in FFXIV. Because of this rework, I found myself being unsubscribed far more often in-between than before. Tried playing other jobs; ain't for me. What drew me to DRK was the way how fast everything felt and there was an amount of challenge provided to players that actually bothered to learn it. It felt like a rewarding experience. In essence, DRK needs to either revert back or a complete overhaul as I previously mentioned. 5.0 DRK feels like a good slap in the face for what was something actually entertaining once.

[Derio]

The spam for it was really bad to many, but the animation was super cool and was the flagship for the job at the media tour. I do hope the animation comes back for use. I really miss OG dark arts, Scourage, and Dark passenger. Those animations were amazing.

I dont think they will overhaul DRK again. They will probably just change WAR this time.

I do hope they remove salted earth for Scourage and bring back Dark Passenger as a AOE OGCD.

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

The entire job needs an overhaul. They absolutely should get rid off DRK's current iteration.

Wish I knew where to start. Living Shadow for example being redundant because Reaper already looks like it does a better job with its pet thingy. Delirium needs to disappear or come back in the same vein as Heavensward Delirium. Living/Edge of Shadow should be replaced along with Dark Arts, preferably creating a toolkit that actually interacts with itself without feeling a lack of meaning in each skill.

DRK needs a 4th combo of some kind, or even a 5th. I'd prefer for SE to bring back the enmity combo albeit make it actually useful outside of generating aggro, make it just like your typical 1-2-3 spam and add special properties to it. Additionally, bring back Scourge or a new DoT that removes the sensory deprivation of seeing the same combo every 4 seconds. GNB does it, DRK can do it too. Aside from that, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to give a regen effect to Salted Earth as well as adding back Haste to Bloodweapon.

this goes off-topic from this thread's topic, but I still want to respond.

1, about Living Shadow / the glorified mere DoT needs to just.. "be" more. I have read some interesting ideas from other people, in other threads, that were also good ideas.

2, about Delirium / I agree, and think that Delirium should be changed either back to original HW Delirium, back to old SB Delirium, or given a new effect that at least fits with the definition of the word "Delirium".

3, about combos / my personal thoughts are for Dark Knight to have two 1-2-3 combos, one pure-damage dealing(Spinning Slash and Power Slash?) and one with less damage but various additional effects(Scourge and original Delirium?), while Syphon Strike and SoulEater could be no-CD oGCDs that you weave into these combos; and two AoE combos, one the unleash-Stalwart Soul utility combo, and the other being pure AoE-damage, perhaps 1-2-3 of the Dark Passenger, and Tar Pit and Carnal Chill from PvP converted into PvE?

[Xenosan]

I really miss OG dark arts, Scourage, and Dark passenger. Those animations were amazing.

I'd rather we had dark arts animation than Deliriums. And add Sole Survivor to that list for me.


I like the idea of using Darkside duration as a resource, like HW's Dragoon Geirskogul/BloodOfTheDragon. But we don't need another ogcd for that. Make the change for Salted Earth or Abyssal Drain. SE has practically all removed sustained bubbles from the game, like Shadow Flare and Bishop Rook (and Bishop cost no resource, practically no recast, and oGCD, UGH WHY GONE). SEarth could fill the niche.

Would be sweet if the next capstone for DRK were a AOE burst damage & lifesteal action @ Salted Earth's location, like Astro has on their Earthly Star bubble into Stellar Detonation.

I love bubbles.. why does SE hate them..