Instead of cutting Ultimate from 5.5 why not cut bozja?

[Steviejd]

I thought there was an ultimate for 5.5, otherwise I'll just kill E12s and then unsub for 13 months

Cool, that's up to you.

[Absurdity]

Technically they should keep updating the ultimates, as it appear a group of tanks cleared it, rendering the both Title and Achievement not so cool after all.

I'd actually consider that rather cool. You make it sound easy but clearing uCoB with 8 tanks requires some insane coordination and optimization, it's not something that the average player, even if they're good enough to do savage and ultimate, could achieve.

[ForteNightshade]

Cool, that's up to you.

Not really. A primarily complaint frequently levied at FFXIV is the lack of content longevity. Ultimate gave relevance to Savage since now all that gear is worthless outside of logs on a certain site. Which speaks volumes. A third party website is literally the only thing keeping FFXIV's endgame afloat for the next 6-7 months.

I'd actually consider that rather cool. You make it sound easy but clearing uCoB with 8 tanks requires some insane coordination and optimization, it's not something that the average player, even if they're good enough to do savage and ultimate, could achieve.

Right? People like to just look at the end result without any context. Tankcob had several top tier world prog raids, including Momo Sama and Rin Karigani. These are players who parse 99-100 on practically everything. It isn't something just anyone is going to easily accomplish.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Not really. A primarily complaint frequently levied at FFXIV is the lack of content longevity. Ultimate gave relevance to Savage since now all that gear is worthless outside of logs on a certain site. Which speaks volumes. A third party website is literally the only thing keeping FFXIV's endgame afloat for the next 6-7 months.



Right? People like to just look at the end result without any context. Tankcob had several top tier world prog raids, including Momo Sama and Rin Karigani. These are players who parse 99-100 on practically everything. It isn't something just anyone is going to easily accomplish.

I'd disagree on logs keeping every endgame player engaged for the next 7 months. Maybe the hardcore world first week 1 players.


Most of the raid scene is still likely progging e12s. I know my group is.

Don't conflate hardcore raiders to the entire scene.

[SturmChurro]

With all of the recent changes and looking back, I feel Shadowbringers is the worst expansion, absolutely so. (Except the story, that was the best part).

A lot of us have been saying this for a long time. Even before Covid.

[HyoMinPark]

I'd disagree on logs keeping every endgame player engaged for the next 7 months. Maybe the hardcore world first week 1 players.

I think the implication is that the gear is basically worthless/doesn’t serve a point now since there’s no Ultimate to require it. No other content but Ultimate demands BiS gear. Not even Savage demands it. Raiders that care about logs get better gear for better logs—it serves the purpose to give them those better logs. Hence Forte’s comment. But in terms of progressing through other content? Savage gear only benefits Ultimate progression. Otherwise, it’s not needed at all.

Aside from me wanting to take a personal break from the game after clearing Eden’s Verse, I also didn’t want to go beyond clearing it for gear since there was no Ultimate for me to make use out of the gear. A lot of raiders did the same thing; some cleared and quit, and then others got some nice logs and then quit the tier. But the lack of Ultimate kind of did negatively impact some that value that kind of content—and it did make them kind of quit the tier since there wasn’t much point beyond shiny oranges/pinks to farm for gear. (I personally also did not really like the tier itself—mostly the fights didn’t really appeal to me, though I thought E8S was fun on a healer.)

Most of the raid scene is still likely progging e12s. I know my group is.

Don't conflate hardcore raiders to the entire scene.

Eh. My group is very midcore/bordering on very casual. And we’ve had the tier cleared for a few weeks now. Now we mostly do weeklies to gear up alt jobs, because everything is basically freeroll. For reference, we didn’t clear early. I think we cleared like Week 5 or 6. So definitely not at any sort of hardcore pace. We raid 12 hours a week—the only week where we did more was Week 1, which was 30 hours.

[Steviejd]

Not really. A primarily complaint frequently levied at FFXIV is the lack of content longevity. Ultimate gave relevance to Savage since now all that gear is worthless outside of logs on a certain site. Which speaks volumes. A third party website is literally the only thing keeping FFXIV's endgame afloat for the next 6-7 months.



Right? People like to just look at the end result without any context. Tankcob had several top tier world prog raids, including Momo Sama and Rin Karigani. These are players who parse 99-100 on practically everything. It isn't something just anyone is going to easily accomplish.

People that blow through content in a week are never going to be satisfied so the hardcore crowd will always have droughts unless the devs start making savage and ultimate ridiculously difficult again to the point of being static breakers. If you want that kind of thing, WoW is over there ----> and even then people are complaining there is nothing to do in WoW now either and they just had an expac.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I think the implication is that the gear is basically worthless/doesn’t serve a point now since there’s no Ultimate to require it. No other content but Ultimate demands BiS gear. Not even Savage demands it. Raiders that care about logs get better gear for better logs—it serves the purpose to give them those better logs. Hence Forte’s comment. But in terms of progressing through other content? Savage gear only benefits Ultimate progression. Otherwise, it’s not needed at all.



Eh. My group is very midcore/bordering on very casual. And we’ve had the tier cleared for a few weeks now. Now we mostly do weeklies to gear up alt jobs, because everything is basically freeroll. For reference, we didn’t clear early. I think we cleared like Week 5 or 6. So definitely not at any sort of hardcore pace. We raid 12 hours a week—the only week where we did more was Week 1, which was 30 hours.

We raid 7 and a half. Ish. 2.5 hours 3 nights a week. And some weeks we miss a day.

There are a lot more groups like mine than hardcore groups, or even groups like yours.

[HyoMinPark]

We raid 7 and a half. Ish. 2.5 hours 3 nights a week. And some weeks we miss a day.

There are a lot more groups like mine than hardcore groups, or even groups like yours.

How casual or un-casual a group is, is ultimately irrelevant to the point Forte was making. Their point was that Savage gear is useless without Ultimate. There is no need to have it. Ultimate was the only thing that gave it an actual purpose, since it’s overkill for everything else in the game but Ultimate. The benefit to getting Savage gear now is basically chasing leaderboards. Because you can’t put it to use for much else.

[ForteNightshade]

I'd disagree on logs keeping every endgame player engaged for the next 7 months. Maybe the hardcore world first week 1 players.


Most of the raid scene is still likely progging e12s. I know my group is.

Don't conflate hardcore raiders to the entire scene.

HyoMin more or less summarized my point. Without Ultimate, BiS serves no purpose outside of logs. And that site plays a pretty significant factor in what keeps people interested. Hence my statement.

This has nothing to do with world first, especially as those players will pretty much parse on their way to BiS. Logs essentially provides a reason beyond the initial clear to keep killing them same bosses each week. That isn't to say every group will value them equally, or even at all. However, there is no denying that website keeps Savage alive on a long term basis. And without Ultimate, it's literally the only thing Savage has for relevancy.