8 man endgame content should go back to the 2.x method (no baby mode) Hear me out...

[Undeadfire]

In bozja there's some extreme/savage solo fights but how many ppl are actually doing it? I never tried it tbh and don't really care (it's not great to wait so long for 1 try imo). I'm curious to know if other ppl enjoyed that content.

They're called duels and it's a rng fest getting picked to fight the boss. DPS check isn't mean since a Tank/Healer can easily take it down and really forgiving just they're rather difficult to fight because of the mechanics which will instantly wipe you if you fail to do 1 correct, and you need certain logos and the Manawall Logos to survive the 1 shot mechanic. Beast King has the least room for errors thanks to quake aoes and dealing with random direction debuff while he is going to cleave the whole field in front of him, the AI is smart enough to always go opposite side of you.

[Mahoukenshi]

Cool, but there's a difference between watching it on YT vs. doing it, and seeing my character there.

Does this really need to be spelled out? Of course, there's a difference, but if it's locked behind content or a difficulty I couldn't care less about or turns out to be too frustrating to clear (alien concept but different people have different tolerance levels, despite the forum posters going "lolz content x is braindead easy"), then I'll either watch it on youtube or ignore it. No rocket science.

[InkB]

(...)
Lesson? Locking lore & story behind 'difficulty' does not 'encourage' players to 'get good' as the vocal minority would have you believe. Instead as soon as the game gets too difficult and they find lore, story, progression through MSQ, etc gets blocked by something they can't easily get past or get carried past... they will quit the game and go play something else. They will not keep hitting their heads against a brick wall trying and trying and trying again.

This, so much.

I mean we are playing game where people queue naked to roulettes so they dont get any hard content. And if we expect even harderd content in future, youre gonna end up with 50 min queue times for one turn.. I run Orbanne monastery a lot for glams (still missing few) and the queue times range from 60 to 120 minutes. Because you need 2 braincells to look where thunder god smashes his swords..

I've joined trials with 2 min elapsed because 6 people left before it even started (The Chrysalis) because it was "too hard" to them and they didnt want to wait someone to finish cutscene. Ive leveled thro Stormblood dungeons lately and ive had healers instantly leave when loading in because it was not satasha or something..

[Iscah]

As a low-skilled player: As long as it is non-MSQ content, you won't see me complain nor touch the content. I'm all for making optional, but interesting stories beind put behind trials like Eden or raids and adjust the difficulty to whaever seems fitting. I just won't touch it, but that's my decision and I'm mature enough to "live" with the decision (instead of crying for nerfs). Sure, I'll miss the references in MSQ to that stuff if it happens, but I can accepte that.

Your argument seems to boil down to "there is content I can't do as a low-skilled player, therefore it is fine for an average-skilled player to be locked out too".

That's not how it works.

Content designed for everyone to enjoy should be aimed at the average player's skill level. Challenging high-skill content should exist for those who want the challenge, not for people to feel obliged to do it when they don't want to and don't feel confident taking it on.

I'm here for the story. The side stories are optional in terms of MSQ progress but they can be every bit as important for seeing the whole story of the game.

[Mahoukenshi]

Your argument seems to boil down to "there is content I can't do as a low-skilled player, therefore it is fine for an average-skilled player to be locked out too".

That's not how it works.

Content designed for everyone to enjoy should be aimed at the average player's skill level. Challenging high-skill content should exist for those who want the challenge, not for people to feel obliged to do it when they don't want to and don't feel confident taking it on.

I'm here for the story. The side stories are optional in terms of MSQ progress but they can be every bit as important for seeing the whole story of the game.

Not at all. Why should it be fine if others shouldn't be able do the content I'm to stupid for? That'd be the same as the opposite "If I think it's easy mode, everyone must feel the same way as well" I just want MSQ content not locked behind "hard" (by whichever standard) content. I mean, I can't talk about content I will likely never touch for whatever reasons. I was talking about a suitable difficulty (outside of the difficulty modes) to make the overall package of side content a wholesome experience. If I decide to ignore it, that's on me. Not the developers, not the challenge seekers and definitely not the average-skilled players. If the average players is fine with, let's say, Eden story normal difficulty (or around that range), who am I to disagree or forbid others of doing just because I won't? Ultimately I can only talk about myself, nothing more nothing less.

[Brightamethyst]

Casual Players will always find something to complain about, especially if they have to put actual effort into things and stuff. Constantly pandering to them never is a good long-term solution to any game that is worth its salt.

It's easy to forget out here in internet land where everyone posting here is dedicated enough to the game to be posting on the forums, but the overwhelming majority of players are casual. 99% of players spend 99% of their time not raiding. Most players will never even set foot into a savage raid, let alone clear them in current content. Hell, some people don't even do normal modes more than one time for story purposes. Raids, including savage level ones are definitely important for the game to have, but they're not the MOST important thing. Making sure the casuals are happy is way more important than catering only to the tiny minority that is progression raiders.

[Jennah]

You *do* realize that this already exists in the game? That ever since Neo-Exdeath, the last boss of a tier has had an entirely new encounter - often with stroy? Which needs to be beaten to see Ultimates, with - again - story?

... would SE simply saying "Yeah, this stuff is canon, not just the Wandering Minstrel's hallucinations, make you happy?

[SturmChurro]

In bozja there's some extreme/savage solo fights but how many ppl are actually doing it? I never tried it tbh and don't really care (it's not great to wait so long for 1 try imo). I'm curious to know if other ppl enjoyed that content.

A decent amount of people prep for these fights, and are in there all the time looking to do them. Arguments are had in shout chat constantly when a random player joins it. They are pretty popular.

[Reinha]

I think that's a matter of definition -- a lot of people think the game is doing pretty bad when the braindeads control progress.

(I'm not one of those type of people. I'd be, more, one of the "braindeads".)

Yeah they don't like how story content is easy and most things are accessible. But they take all the harder things for granted. The vast majority of players never do anything other than quests, leveling, roulettes and normal raids. We would not have Coils, Savage, Ultimate, Extreme and Unreal modes without casual players paying most of the bills. I think people should keep that in mind when they suggest ways to drive more and more players to YouTube instead of letting everyone enjoy the core game.

[Iscah]

Not at all. Why should it be fine if others shouldn't be able do the content I'm to stupid for? That'd be the same as the opposite "If I think it's easy mode, everyone must feel the same way as well" I just want MSQ content not locked behind "hard" (by whichever standard) content. I mean, I can't talk about content I will likely never touch for whatever reasons. I was talking about a suitable difficulty (outside of the difficulty modes) to make the overall package of side content a wholesome experience. If I decide to ignore it, that's on me. Not the developers, not the challenge seekers and definitely not the average-skilled players. If the average players is fine with, let's say, Eden story normal difficulty (or around that range), who am I to disagree or forbid others of doing just because I won't? Ultimately I can only talk about myself, nothing more nothing less.

If that's what you meant, then I'm not sure how people were supposed to infer that from your post.

If if the overall conversation goes:

"Side stories should be locked behind hard content!"
"That wouldn't be a good idea - it should be accessible to the average player."
"Well, I can't even do average, and I don't complain about missing out."

...which of the first two statements is the third one supporting? It certainly sounds to me like you were saying if they locked it behind hard content everyone would just have to deal with it like you do now. Doubly so when your next post is just "oh well, if it's too hard you can watch it on YouTube".

I can't see your argument being in favour of a "suitable experience for the average player", or any mention of keeping MSQ at an average difficulty (which wasn't the argument in the first place).