Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

They "work", they're just broken from a core design stand point. Tis why they are the first and only "limited races", even the devs know they're not in the best situation which is why they're trying to find work arounds behind the scenes.

And this is why I believe what I believe.
I still feel convinced that its not intentional to make you pay to change from Hairstyle 1, to Hairstyle 2. Each face has 2 hairstyles, im not changing the face, Im just changing the hair.
Its not a wish or a Demand that this gets changed, I just Believe it will be. Cause it is pretty anti-consumer to make Hrothgar players pay Real Money to change something every race can change without Real Money, it would be worse if we get new styles and we'd have to pay to wear them. To me this is the result of a Rushjob, it was said that they just barley finished the races in time, and this is an unfortunate effect of that Crunch, along with the gear situation.
Why wasn't it changed then? Well I can't accurately answer that, Im not a dev working on the game, and Im not gonna look at Modders to devaule their excuse no matter how bad. All I have, is that they said new things would be coming to the Hrothgar; no time announced, just that its happening. So untill proven otherwise I like to think that we should see some changes in the next expansion along with other changes/adjustments and features to the game.

It's detailed to the point where this shows literally the defining features carried over in all the Femroe faces as well as their body shape, head shape and stature
These aint stick figures, it IS "100% relevant to their final design" as it's in the game. It's not some random concept art like the HW Viera stuff

So then show me what a Female Hrothgar looks like in-game.
Because my point is we dont know what one actually looks like. We already know what a FemRoe looks like so those features look familiar. But we dont know what a FemHroth looks like. And I doubt they are gonna be Blue People.


--(Im not gonna address everything else because Im not gonna argue Devs Vs Modders. Its not a fruitful conversation to compare a team that are working on the game as a whole, to people who can alter some code that only effect their screen.)--

[reivaxe]

And this is why I believe what I believe.
I still feel convinced that its not intentional to make you pay to change from Hairstyle 1, to Hairstyle 2. Each face has 2 hairstyles, im not changing the face, Im just changing the hair.

You can believe what you want, I see nothing that even remotely hints to this being unintentional.

Unintentional is them removing 2B ass because of a mistake, commenting on it and fixing it in a patch ... this Hrothgar mane non-sense is a core design decision baked into the CC.
And again, when you change faces you also change facial features. Hrothgar do not even have a "hair" tab cause they don't have hair, their manes are treated as a part of their face so I have no clue why you think this is just some unintentional goof that they ... just never bothered to correct or even address publicly. In fact YP did the opposite. In 2019 E3 interview he flat out says that the hair isn't selectable separate from the face by design.

So if you're saying that the mane system isn't bad because you think that they will probably let Hrothgar change between manes of their face at some point then I have to whole-heartedly disagree, the way Hrothgar manes are handled is a horrid core design decision and anti-customer af.
Even if they could swap between the 2 manes that's still just 2 hair options that ultimately are a big part of the reason they can't wear hats and I wouldn't wish such restrictions on any option in the game.

So then show me what a Female Hrothgar looks like in-game.

Here ya go.


Cause I can point to Zodiark.
We've seen many artistic depictions of Zodiark in game, be it through cave art with very lil detail or statues. We have yet to see him in all his glory in person but we know what he looks like. Even characters that have seen him see these depictions as accurate.




The devs are not trying to trick you, they went through the effort of making this art and shipping it in this game for this story to show you what they look like.
In the world of this game this art was made in the past to show the Hrothgar Queen at the time, some Hrothgar Shrine Maidens and a Femroe Shrine Maiden. In this world who ever made this art actually saw female Hrothgar (and given the number of Hrothgar in the area may have even been one).

(If you can trust the devs when they can make this work ...


but wont make this work ...


then maybe you can trust what they put in game to show what female Hrothgar look like )

I think we've reached an impasse.
You seem to want to give the devs the benefit of thinking "surely this was unintentional and they actually meant to allow Hrothgar to swap between the whole 2 manes they have for each face. This mistake will be fixed!" even though YP outright stated that this was how it works for them before we got the expac ... and yet you think the devs adding lore related art to the game is not them trying to show us what a female Hrothgar looks like because you don't like it.

That's a very strange line of logic imo, don't think either of us will gain anything from more replies.

To sum up my thoughts on the glaring problem of manes ...
"I see no reason for why the mane can go bye-bye for hoods and bucket helms but not hats other than them just really wanting to show off the mane when possible or w/e.

So yeah, I'd gladly take bald Females with zero hair who can wear hats over this mane non-sense as it provides much more freedom and diversity."

[Allegor]

Imma just leave this here

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Imma just leave this here

......................I think we can work with that

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

(All of that and a bag of Chips)

You're not going to see it because you've already convinced yourself it was intentional. I will remain unconvinced it was intentional until they themselves; the Devs say so.
Modders being able to mess with coding that only effects their end of the game, and not the game as a whole is not going to sway me either.
I will remain unmoved in my opinion, I will wait and see what happens in the future, I wanna hear from the devs, not from a fellow player what WILL in fact happen going foreword, and how/why things happen.

So if you're saying that the mane system isn't bad because....

....Dont do that.
Dont create an argument I never made so you can try to win it.

Even if they could swap between the 2 manes that's still just 2 hair options

Yes...and thats been my point, like the whole time. I should be able to switch between both hairstyles. The face has nothing to do with the TWO hairstyles attached to the face.
And if/when we get more hair options, I should be able to freely go to those as well. Maybe it will happen, you sure as heck can't tell me that it won't, only the Devs can.

Here ya go.

I might be blind, cause I still only see a Mural. I still dont see a Female Hrothgar. I still fail to see a final design model put into the game.
Come back to me when you have one.

You seem to want to give the devs the benefit of thinking "surely this was unintentional and they actually meant to allow Hrothgar to swap between the whole 2 manes they have for each face. This mistake will be fixed!

Thats my choice to make, and I want to see from the Devs themselves if Im right or wrong.
Maybe Im wrong, it can always happen. Maybe FemHroth and MaleViera wont even happen...but thats up to the Devs, not any of us.

and yet you think the devs adding lore related art to the game is not them trying to show us what a female Hrothgar looks like because you don't like it.

Show me a quote where I said any of that. I said we dont know what they actually look like because they are not in the game. And I never said anything about Not Liking it. Is this just a thing people do or something when they can't outright win? Sit here and lie?

If this is your strat to argue/debate with somebody, then your right, don't think either of us will gain anything from more replies.

[reivaxe]

You're not going to see it because you've already convinced yourself it was intentional. I will remain unconvinced it was intentional until they themselves; the Devs say so.

Yoshida: We developed Hrothgar to be a “human beast”, so face patterns and hair styles are linked. I told the staff “You don’t need to implement common hair styles” and thats why we have our current design of the Hrothgar.
--
"Since Hrothgar have hairstyles tied to their character creation options rather than being separately selectable, you will not be able to apply unlockable hairstyles, but they might implement more face types after 5.0."

There. I don't deal in hopes and prays but I'm also not hoping against them actually giving Hrothgar a hair system cause if they did that would be great.
If you could show me anything indicating that this isn't intentional design then please do, but this is a quote from YP from before the races even came out.

....Dont do that.
Dont create an argument I never made so you can try to win it.

I'm not trying to "win" anything.
This entire thing was kicked off by you saying this.

"It was said that the Hrothgar would have new hairstyles unique to them in the future.
I think the idea that their 'Hair' is just their manes/Fur is a solid idea on concept."

Nothing about Hrothgar manes being uncontrolled fur locked to their face is a solid idea/ concept for the player. It's a very limiting idea at best and anti-consumer in practice.

Yes...and thats been my point, like the whole time. I should be able to switch between both hairstyles. The face has nothing to do with the TWO hairstyles attached to the face.

The faces have different facial feature options that affect the mane.
1
2

So no, the face isn't some independent thing unrelated to the hair.

I might be blind, cause I still only see a Mural.

You're looking at actual official art work of Female Hrothgar in their world.
You wanna shut your eyes then have fun but this is the devs telling you what they look like.
*shrugs

Thats my choice to make, and I want to see from the Devs themselves if Im right or wrong.

Like I said, that's your thought process. I find it silly to reject what the devs lay out in front of you because you don't like it but grasp onto some idea of them not intending for Hrothgar to have to pay-4-manes after all this time.
But I can't tell you what to do with your thought process, can only say we've reached an impasse (a situation in which no progress is possible, especially because of disagreement; a deadlock.)

Show me a quote where I said any of that. I said we dont know what they actually look like because they are not in the game.

Let me leave you with a question ... do you think the devs are trying to fool you? Do you think they would willy-nilly throw something like this in the game without thought? What would the gain from that, knowing that people want to see what these genders look like?
This is nothing less than a depiction of what they look like, that is all we can take it as.
---------------
-----

If you wanna talk more to clear things up then you can take it to the dms, this has dragged on long enough and I'm legit starting to question if you really know your own stance. There shouldn't be a "contest" here to "win", if nothing I've quoted from YP can convince you this was intentional nor the fact that each face has exclusive hair add on NOR the fact that this race was shipped this way then w/e, you can keep thinking that the manes were a "solid idea in concept".


Imma keep being happy that the only depiction of Hrothgar females we have doesn't have these limiting mane non-sense as it shows them being bald and go back to posting cool art of cat ladies.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

(Big Post)

--Doesn't mean they can't still change it up and adjust it in the future. Either they do it, or they don.t
We both seem to agree that it would be nice if this happens, so Ill leave it there on common ground.

I'm not trying to "win" anything.

Clearly you are, because that post said nothing to the effect of "I think the mane system isn't bad"
I said nothing about a system, I commented from a Design perspective; that Hrothgar being a Beast Race don't have Traditional Hair, their 'hair' is their manes, its fur. From a designers perspective when making a beast race character in...anything, to me thats a solid concept.
NOTHING I said had to do with a Video game system in CC. I said nothing about that, so you made it up.

The faces have different facial feature options that affect the mane.
So no, the face isn't some independent thing unrelated to the hair.

My god..you just dont get it....I just want to be able to change the hair without using IRL money. Im not arguing how the system works now, just that I want to simply be able to switch from Hairstyle 1 to Hairstyle 2.

You're looking at actual official art work of Female Hrothgar in their world.
You wanna shut your eyes then have fun but this is the devs telling you what they look like.
*shrugs]

False, Im looking at a very pretty Mural in game with a Depiction of Female Hrothgar and FemRoe with the Queen
I am not looking at an In-game Model that shows 100% what a Female Hrothgar looks like.There is no solid character model, you are missing that very crucial object and detail.
No idea how you keep missing that.

Let me leave you with a question ... do you think the devs are trying to fool you?

This is a very silly question to ask, what are they fooling me with? Its a Mural, thats all it is, a picture in game. All I have said is that there is no in-game model, and until there is we don't know 100% what they look like.
You're right, there shouldn't be a contest to win; there never was. But a couple of times you argued things I never even argued, which tells me you don't even understand what Im talking about, but you still feel the need to convince me your right. And then Im content in this wishy-washy world that there is the possibility that things will be changed next expansion, and many of what happened was a rushjob because they only had so much time to finish it. We both like this idea, and yet you still wanna fight me on it.
Sounds pretty competitive to me, like you want to win. lol

[Yencat]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with reivaxe on the Hrothgar hair thing.

They seem to have gambled on people finding the fur patterns a lot more exciting than they ended up doing since they put those in the hairstyle slot in the CC, and we've all seen now how that was received.

It's good to be hopeful that they will address it, because it really is anti-consumer and they should address it, but it's more poor decision making on their part than an oversight, really. I don't believe they've even really acknowledged it, in the art stream they mostly talked about how having so few headgear options was unfortunate and they'd keep looking into ways to make things work, but kept pretty quiet about hairstyles.

Unless I missed it?

Which is why it also wouldn't surprise me in the least if they came up with some cockamamie reason to do the same thing to female Hrothgar if they made them.

"You know what players would really love rather than hairstyles and hats? Customizable toenails! Genius!"

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

"You know what players would really love rather than hairstyles and hats? Customizable toenails! Genius!"

Can they have claws on their toes and be barefoot? SHOOOT SIGN ME UP!

But, I will continue to remain hopeful that it gets addressed next expansion, even if I just sound like a Wishful optimistic I believe what I believe and think things will improve and get better for Hrothgar and Viera, Until proven otherwise. I like to also think that they said nothing about hairstyles cause they were still working on it, think it would suck more to hear they haven't figured it out yet, as suppose to waiting to hear if they indefinitely can't solve it, or be surprised that they finally got it and have something to show for it.

[Yencat]

Can they have claws on their toes and be barefoot? SHOOOT SIGN ME UP!

No, you get painted claws in the standard wooden sandals. Stop being so demanding and ungrateful, jeez!

But, I will continue to remain hopeful that it gets addressed next expansion, even if I just sound like a Wishful optimistic I believe what I believe and think things will improve and get better for Hrothgar and Viera

You and me both.