New player, loving a lot so far but feel I'm being driven away

[Theodric]

Unfortunately dungeons in FFXIV are very tight and quick. A few of the original dungeons have a couple of bonus side rooms with extra treasure chests in them yet after a certain point in development that model was ditched in favour of turning them into completely linear experiences. It's not like certain MMO's such as WoW or ESO where you can explore a little and find a 'secret' boss, rare enemy or additional loot.

It's something that extends to raids, too. It's a shame and I dislike it but it is what it is.

[AngelCheese77]

Hi all,

I wanted to provide some feedback on my experiences so far and ask some questions to see if I should keep playing. (snip)

TL;DR - I love a lot about this game (community, job concept, crafting, MSQ) but some things I have encountered have given me pause (rushed dungeon experience, simplified class designs/Scholar changes, lack of purpose for sidequests). Should I stick it out or is this not the game I'm looking for?

Hi there and welcome!

So reading your post, what you are talking about has pretty much become the norm in FF14 over the years. As SquareEnix has changed things for the better (or worse), one needs to adapt. I'm going to give my perspective here.

1. Reaching 30 and unlocking Scholar. Back in the day, healer classes had quite a bit more to them, but SE gutted the classes a few patches ago. All those nice attack spells went kaput. Having your pet die on you went kaput as it is now unkillable. IMO Scholar is a pretty braindead class to play (not a jab at you, it's just that easy). Also, there is no real 'support' class. Anything in the way of crowd control or the like is moot now.

2. Dungeons. Yup, be ready to have very little talking and all running and AoEing. That is how SE made the dungeons, and how players have optimally played them. My advice is to speak up and say at the beginning of a run that you and your girlfriend are new to the game and would like a slower experience as you figure things out. Do be aware that lower level dungeons are a joke, so they can be beaten pretty fast. As you get higher (post level 50 content), things get a bit more tricky with mechanics.

FF14 has a lot going for it, but I feel combat is meh. The story is awesome though.

Also, realize you can change classes and try out any other one whenever you want (though some do have level requirements beforehand). So don't be afraid to try them out and see what fits you better.

[Swilly]

My first MMO was The Secret World and we were doing Master Planner/Nightmare dungeons, so I understand dungeons being a more involved experience that require a lot of coordination, communication and planning, but FF14 is just a different dungeon experience. If you're running them through the Duty Finder, most teammates you'll encounter are just trying to get on with their dailies, or have already been grinding the same thing over and over for XP or that one glamour item that just won't drop... So unless it's on-level, new content (right now, this is gonna be the level 80 stuff) or the player is new and getting help with mechanics, it's just an "autopilot" experience for most people.

Unfortunately this attitude can sometimes seep into things like Alliance Raids that aren't quite a faceroll just yet so we end up wiping out a lot, but that's another story... (RIP)

In any case, there's not much socializing in FF14 random group content. It's not that people mean to be rude or unsociable, it's just... like riding the subway to work or something. If you're looking for a more fun and social experience, I suggest forming a static 4-player group with friends, or maybe joining a Free Company that appeals to you.

As for SCH, it was actually the first class I leveled to endgame (Stormblood-era) and this was back in 2017. The job has changed a lot since then and we've lost a few abilities, but I can't really comment on how much better/worse it is now because I don't really play healers anymore. I believe FF14 is trying to standardize its healing classes to some degree, but results so far have been mixed.

For the record, I play a Bard now and Shadowbringers apparently replaced all of our proper weapons with Nerf bows and arrows, but I CAN say that over the years it's also been swings and roundabouts; classes get balanced and rebalanced, today's crappiest class might be tomorrow's power player (and vice versa), skills come and go and come back, etc. I say, if you like Scholar, stick with it to the end because a lot of these jobs really become a whole different game at the top... and then they might get changed completely with the next expansion anyway

[Rosenstrauch]

How did you plan a whole day around running a dungeon?

Wrong game, but in Dungeons & Dragons Online (DDO) there is a dungeon that can take upwards of an hour to clear if everyone is going in blind. It's called The Pit, and it's... pretty impressive. The central area is a massive multi-floor catwalk loaded with traps, suspended above a hundred foot drop into lava. And there's around half a dozen or so side areas the players have to go to, in a specific order, to clear the dungeon. Every single one of those rooms is fairly massive in their own right, with respawning mobs—some of which spam spells and status effects—and most notoriously, some fairly complex jumping puzzles that require precision platforming and multiple players working in cooperation (or one really clever Monk) to solve. Oh, and there's nothing actually pointing you to the right room, so you can end up wandering aimlessly trying to find just where to go for a long time, and almost as long trying to figure out how to get there. And you can fall off pretty much everything, including the catwalk in the center room.

It's basically the polar opposite of the 4 packs - boss - repeat hallway design FFXIV has established. And also terribly frustrating to do in a group that's not used to those elements being in an MMORPG. Which is to say... most MMORPGs players, lol. Fun to solo, provided you're playing a Monk, or Cleric, or Paladin.

Gods, I miss that game's dungeon design sometimes. It's entirely understandable that FFXIV didn't go in that direction to begin with, and moved further away from it after 2.0. But I wouldn't mind a big, mildly complex puzzle dungeon.

[ReynTime]

So unless it's on-level, new content (right now, this is gonna be the level 80 stuff) or the player is new and getting help with mechanics, it's just an "autopilot" experience for most people.

This doesn't change with current lv80 dungeons though. For instance the current patch's dungeon was an auto-pilot experience day 1 aside from two new boss mechanics.

[Vahlnir]

Wrong game, but in Dungeons & Dragons Online (DDO) there is a dungeon that can take upwards of an hour to clear if everyone is going in blind. It's called The Pit, and it's... pretty impressive. The central area is a massive multi-floor catwalk loaded with traps, suspended above a hundred foot drop into lava. And there's around half a dozen or so side areas the players have to go to, in a specific order, to clear the dungeon. Every single one of those rooms is fairly massive in their own right, with respawning mobs—some of which spam spells and status effects—and most notoriously, some fairly complex jumping puzzles that require precision platforming and multiple players working in cooperation (or one really clever Monk) to solve. Oh, and there's nothing actually pointing you to the right room, so you can end up wandering aimlessly trying to find just where to go for a long time, and almost as long trying to figure out how to get there. And you can fall off pretty much everything, including the catwalk in the center room.

It's basically the polar opposite of the 4 packs - boss - repeat hallway design FFXIV has established. And also terribly frustrating to do in a group that's not used to those elements being in an MMORPG. Which is to say... most MMORPGs players, lol. Fun to solo, provided you're playing a Monk, or Cleric, or Paladin.

Gods, I miss that game's dungeon design sometimes. It's entirely understandable that FFXIV didn't go in that direction to begin with, and moved further away from it after 2.0. But I wouldn't mind a big, mildly complex puzzle dungeon.

WoW also has a few dungeons that, once upon a time, were a significant time investment. Easily an hour, probably more to clear them. I'm guessing they got their investments back through Classic, since they were pretty much neutered in retail WoW.

In my relatively short but also significant stay in FF XI, I remember treading through Castle Zvahl. It was long and it was tedious, but it was really epic. I had a fun time with my guild there. Reaching the end and beating the boss was one of my fondest memories in FF XI. It was also partially what influenced my chocobo's name. I miss open world dungeons.

[ReynTime]

WoW also has a few dungeons that, once upon a time, were a significant time investment. Easily an hour, probably more to clear them. I'm guessing they got their investments back through Classic, since they were pretty much neutered in retail WoW.

In my relatively short but also significant stay in FF XI, I remember treading through Castle Zvahl. It was long and it was tedious, but it was really epic. I had a fun time with my guild there. Reaching the end and beating the boss was one of my fondest memories in FF XI. I miss open world dungeons.

I still remember when Yoshi-P said a lead designer from XIV was interested in bringing open world dungeons back. Whatever the reason may be, at this point the idea was probably abandoned along with other due schedule not letting them deviate much from what we're used to.

[Absurdity]

WoW also has a few dungeons that, once upon a time, were a significant time investment. Easily an hour, probably more to clear them. I'm guessing they got their investments back through Classic, since they were pretty much neutered in retail WoW.

Yep, the classic Blackrock Depths are, to this day, the probably best designed dungeon ever. It was absolutely massive and the time to complete it could take anywhere from an hour to several depending on how many of the 21 bosses you wanted to kill.

But what made it stand out to me, compared to the joke that are XIV dungeons, was that it was designed like an actual city. It had a prison quarter (with a "court"), an arena, living quarters, a giant forge, a golem factory, a tavern, a tomb, the throne room of the king and several other quarters you would expect a city built into a mountain to actually have because, you know, people actually live there.


This design however probably just doesn't work anymore in today's mmos. People don't want to have to decide which parts of the dungeon they're going to do and potentially spend hours inside said dungeon, even WoW stopped doing those despite all the classic dungeons feeling incredibly impressive. People would probably have a meltdown if you introduced a dungeon like that in XIV.

[StrykerGaming]

As an example, and what compelled me to post, was my disappointment upon reaching level 30 and unlocking Scholar; I've been excited about Scholar since I picked up the game because I heard it was a complex healing class with a lot of support options after reading some guides, though after I unlocked it I lost more abilities and complexity than I gained. Similarly, the pets seem redundant which was both very confusing and disappointing as a new player; I was looking forward to the support pet as I want to play a support class but I've learned since that the two pets are the same now I think? While I'm sure the healing functionality is useful in groups, it not useful or fun for me while leveling with my girlfriend as the game is too easy to require heals (another issue which has made things less engaging). Gameplay-wise it doesn't feel like the class that is depicted in the story or that I'd heard about. Basically, it sounds like much of what I read that had made me interested in the class (and game as a whole) has since changed in the recent expansion.

Similarly, the dungeon experience is not very new player friendly. My girlfriend and I planned a whole day around running a dungeon and were super excited to jump in but instead of an interesting experience with social elements and teamwork, we were thrown into an AoE rush and honestly felt overwhelmed, confused, and bored all at once. We had no time to learn anything, meet players, or actually play the dungeon. We felt like dead weight and we weren't having a good time because it was mindless.

First, I strongly recommend that you and your girlfriend look for a Free Company that takes the time to teach members dungeon mechanics and offer a great social atmosphere that you can call home. Second, you're still "lower level" and it will feel clunky and disjointed. My SMN is also my SCH. It wasn't until after hitting 60 that I felt comfortable with the abilities. Using the SCH abilities requires you make the right choices of what you want to employ.

Being new to the game and playing class/jobs one some level require a good learning curve. Keep at it. You may come to find that the SCH isn't want you were looking for and find it in the AST. Or you may decide to try WHM (which I recommend if you are more a healing centered player). Good luck to the both of you.

[BloodRubyXII]

The faster part is definitely not the fault of the game design.

This - if anything it's designed the complete opposite by gating everything behind MSQ.

Also the first 50 levels are a trainwreck.